Crackpot Christianity? - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Yes, Jayhawk is a True Believer, there's no doubt. But I still prefer to seek common ground elsewhere. In any case, I do understand what you're saying.
Well when you find that common ground, let me know. Well anytime you want a beer, let me know, its on me.

"Protecting the Constitution vs Presidental powers is not about terrorism, but of doing what is right vs. what is easy. I choose doing right... where do you stand?"

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post #72 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:24 AM
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I miss him on TV, that was a brilliant Chappelle character. Echoes of Lenny Bruce.
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post #73 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
I doubt anyone wishes to restrict what Christians wish to believe. It is when they seek to force others to believe in their looney concepts that issues arise. Jim
Did I say that?

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post #74 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Did I say that?

B
Not exactly Bot, but your response that led to my comment was a little over in left field too. The central issue with drawing attention to peculiar beliefs in religions relates to how such peculiar beliefs can become either politically correct and pushed on people, or how they become legislated into "common law" and imposed on people. If someone wants to believe in peculiar concepts of the universe, they should feel free to do that, as long as they leave the rest of us alone. Jim
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post #75 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
Not exactly Bot, but your response that led to my comment was a little over in left field too. The central issue with drawing attention to peculiar beliefs in religions relates to how such peculiar beliefs can become either politically correct and pushed on people, or how they become legislated into "common law" and imposed on people. If someone wants to believe in peculiar concepts of the universe, they should feel free to do that, as long as they leave the rest of us alone. Jim
Not sure how many of you watched 60 minutes last night, but there was a piece about an ex-Islamic woman - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - who fled to Holland in 1992 (to escape an arranged marriage, so she said). You see, strictly speaking, women who stray from the Islamic faith are to be murdered...had she stayed in her community, this likely would have happened.

She wrote a short movie, and enlisted a very controversial director to make it a reality. It ran 12 minutes, and depicted naked, beaten women with Islamic verses written on them. The movie was called "Submission", and resulted in a brutal attack on and death of the director, Theo Van Gogh.

During her political career, she has attempted to make Holland - a bastian of liberalism the likes of which some here would have America become - realize that protecting women from being abducted to middle-eastern countries and killed, or beaten savagely for transgressions against Mohammed, is NOT in fact 'imposing peculiar religious views' on another people. Holland took notice, and has been talking about dramatically tightening it's immigration laws (making ours look liberal by comparison).

The point is this - whether or not a person's religious views are "peculiar" is a matter of perspective and opinion. What is NOT a matter of perspective or opinion is that all humans are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is up to responsible governments to ensure that the violation of such rights en masse by ANY body - governmental or otherwise - is not let to go unnoticed. Certainly, some Islamic fascists for example would consider these to be "peculiar religious views"...I assure you they are not.

Hirsi Ali's background is somewhat questionable - ostensibly because she was in fear for her life and well-being for some reason. Nevertheless, much of what she says of Islam is very telling. During the 60 Minutes interview, she said she knew very young in life that Islam was 'not for her'. She was reading Nancy Drew / Hardy Boys books, and commented that "Nancy Drew wouldn't be wearing a veil." This, to me, speaks volumes about the boiling hatred Muslims have toward the west - our story is one of liberation and freedom, and freedom is a concept that runs at odds with what Islam has to say. Blame Islam, blame the Qu'ran, blame the Imam's who teach it - you cannot deny that the caustic animosity towards the west is a uniquely Muslim phenomenon.

In this day and age, the number of "crackpot christians" who have killed tens or hundreds, or even thousands of people in the name of their God are very, very few - most of them are written off as mental cases. I don't think the same diagnosis can be made for the believers of the literal word of Mohammed.
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post #76 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:04 PM
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Yes, I saw that piece.

And that is just one of the reasons that I "wish to restrict what Christians (and all religious fanatics) wish to believe."

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post #77 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregs300CD
Yes, I saw that piece.

And that is just one of the reasons that I want to "wish to restrict what Christians (and all religious fanatics) wish to believe."
Oh, you "want to restrict what Christians believe?"

That's a rather tall order.

And how do you propose to do that, big man?

As long as they don't try to impose their "beliefs" on me (like the islamofascists) I don't particularly care what anybody believes.

Last edited by baby boo; 08-21-2006 at 12:20 PM.
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post #78 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:31 PM
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HAHA! See, that's exactly why it should be outlawed.

You nutjobs do crack me up, though.

Don't worry. Nobody has the ability to keep you from your insanity.
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post #79 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
Not exactly Bot, but your response that led to my comment was a little over in left field too. The central issue with drawing attention to peculiar beliefs in religions relates to how such peculiar beliefs can become either politically correct and pushed on people, or how they become legislated into "common law" and imposed on people. If someone wants to believe in peculiar concepts of the universe, they should feel free to do that, as long as they leave the rest of us alone. Jim
My sentiments, exactly.

The tricky part is that laws are nothing more than codification of morality. Since the beginning of time religions pretty much determined morality and thus, laws. In the west it wasn't until Christianity came along that the concept of separation of church and state was conceived. Before that they were the same thing with political leaders making obeisance to whatever god or gods governed thir particular community. And it wasn't until the American Revolution that the revolutionary idea of full separation was codified into law, eventually bringing religion within the sphere of law, reversing the historical pattern.

Thus, if a religion in the USA wants to have a law passed they must do what any other special interest group must do: Buy or coerce enough malleable politicians to enact what they want.

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post #80 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
In this day and age, the number of "crackpot christians" who have killed tens or hundreds, or even thousands of people in the name of their God are very, very few - most of them are written off as mental cases. I don't think the same diagnosis can be made for the believers of the literal word of Mohammed.
That is an excellent observation and worthy of repeating (which is why I am quoting it).

This is the issue as I see it. Christianity has been guilty of many atrocities. The Spanish conquest of the Americas was conducted, in part, in the name of Catholicism. Thousands of Indians were killed because they refused to convert.

Earlier, during the Crusades, European christians killed Jews and Muslims alike in an effort to regain control of Jerusalem.

But those examples, horrible as they are, happned many hundreds of years ago. Neither the Catholic Church nor other other churches, actively advocate the kind of hatred, violence and destruction that is currently being advocated by the believers in the literal word of Islam.

Mullahs call for jihad and call fatwas. The Pope, on the other hand, no longer stands in rome calling for the death of infidels (they still protest priests who are child molesters, but that the subject for another thread).

I don;t care what religion a man or a woman wishes to believe in. You can pray to a rock or to a tree or to an old shoelace for all I care--but just stay the Hell away from me.

Which in a sense is what I like about Jews.

When was the last time that a Jew flew a plane into a building--in the name of Moses or King David?

When was the last time that a Jew showed up at your front door on a Saturday morning trying to talk to you about the Rapture?

And when was the last time that a Jew got up in front of a TV camera and asked you to send money to build a Torah amusement park (Jerry Lewis asking for money DOES NOT count).

Peace!
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