Why the need to conduct survelliance without a warrant? - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
I'm not offended and if I decided to "bring my wrath" down on you then you would certainly know it.

On the other hand I'm wise to your tactics of persuing issues like AIPAC and Israeli "spying" and, beyond a certain point I just won't indulge you.

Since you are not satisfied with my answers, just go ahead with your monologue.
But you admited that Israel spies on the US and then you turn around and ask me to prove it, what's with that picture?
Yes we are incompetent when it come to spying, is that why we need Isarel's help to spy on us or for us? Do they let us spy on them to know what they know?
Help me out understand this relationship maybe I will mellow out and accept the shaft without vaseline.
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post #32 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
What could the reason be? The FISA law gives them 72 hours to operate without one, so they can't use the argument that it stops investigations. They have unlimited rights to evesdrop on foreign nationals, so it is not obstructing fighting foreign elements. Why the need to spy on Americans without a warrant? What is the overriding reason? If it is a question of speed, then the FISA court is simply like any organization, and like other courts would simply need to expand its staff. Security? The FISA court operation is under the same strictures as the CIA, staff and officials must be cleared in the same way, and they are bound by laws with heavy penalities, not to mention that an Al-queda terrorist mole on the FISA court is a pretty far fetched idea. What is the reason President Bush wants an unlimited right to violate the Bill of Rights merely on his whim?

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Originally Posted by DaveN007
You are mischaracterizing the NSA program and not asking an honest question.

Why not just spend your time calling for the death of "Czar Boosh".

Try being intellectually honest.
Actually those are valid questions. You have to wonder why the Administration wants to circumvent FISA Courts which were put in place for this very purpose.

My bet is that we have a system in place, an electronics version of Aurora, that we don't want held to any public or court scrutiny. We had projects like that twenty years ago when I was at Edwards AFB. Only problem with this one is that instead of being a military project that needed hidden from public eyes, this one wanders onto public rights. That would be unknown territory for a black project and the Constitution.

Just my $0.088 adjusted for Bush deficit and 9 Trillion debt load

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post #33 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:39 PM
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If there is an abuse that results from NSA policy, I have no doubt that there are plenty of ACLU attorneys to find a remedy.
Isn't that what this latest ruling by a Federal Judge was?

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post #34 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Professor
But you admited that Israel spies on the US and then you turn around and ask me to prove it, what's with that picture?
Yes we are incompetent when it come to spying, is that why we need Isarel's help to spy on us or for us? Do they let us spy on them to know what they know?
Help me out understand this relationship maybe I will mellow out and accept the shaft without vaseline.
Can't you guys start another thread on this? I'm looking for a valid answer that support's Bush's position. I want to hear one valid reason that the Executive Branch can simply declare some nebulous reason that cannot be scrutinized by a court that allows them to violate The Bill of Rights, and then claim they have no duty to observe the Constitution they took an oath to protect and uphold.
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post #35 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
But you admited that Israel spies on the US and then you turn around and ask me to prove it, what's with that picture?
Yes we are incompetent when it come to spying, is that why we need Isarel's help to spy on us or for us? Do they let us spy on them to know what they know?
Help me out understand this relationship maybe I will mellow out and accept the shaft without vaseline.
If you have information about Israeli spying on the US then report it to the FBI. Speculation on either my part or yours does not constitute "evidence."

Here's their contact information for you:

FBI Baltimore
2600 Lord Baltimore
Baltimore, Maryland 21244
baltimore.fbi.gov
(410) 265-8080


Now direct your speculations to someone who can actually do something about it.

Last edited by baby boo; 08-18-2006 at 12:45 PM.
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post #36 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Can't you guys start another thread on this? I'm looking for a valid answer that support's Bush's position. I want to hear one valid reason that the Executive Branch can simply declare some nebulous reason that cannot be scrutinized by a court that allows them to violate The Bill of Rights, and then claim they have no duty to observe the Constitution they took an oath to protect and uphold.
The closest thing you'll get as a reason is "to protect the national security", which you've plainly indicated isn't a good enough reason for you. Fine. The sides have been chosen, we all agree to disagree. Move on.
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post #37 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Can't you guys start another thread on this? I'm looking for a valid answer that support's Bush's position. I want to hear one valid reason that the Executive Branch can simply declare some nebulous reason that cannot be scrutinized by a court that allows them to violate The Bill of Rights, and then claim they have no duty to observe the Constitution they took an oath to protect and uphold.
In my opinion these two topics are related. Even Boo admitted that we are outsourcing the spying to Israel. In effect we are not being spied by a US entity, which could be interesting when a case goes to court. The government can always wash its hands and make some recording admissible even if they were done on US citizens without a warrant. Think about it
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post #38 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
The closest thing you'll get as a reason is "to protect the national security", which you've plainly indicated isn't a good enough reason for you. Fine. The sides have been chosen, we all agree to disagree. Move on.
The problem with "to protect the National Security" is that it has been used to do everything from add paperwork for car titles to ban softdrinks on airplanes. My wife can't keep a Leatherman in her purse as she goes to work at one of three Federal buildings and while I can carry a 38" hardwood cane with titanium tip on a plane I can't carry a Swiss Army Pen knife. All to protect the National Security. It has become the "boy who cried wolf" clause which is a shame. It should have been used ONLY WHEN NECESSARY

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post #39 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
What do you mean by "it"? You mean do survelliance, or spy without a warrant?
BOTH

Don't believe everything you think
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post #40 of 94 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
The closest thing you'll get as a reason is "to protect the national security", which you've plainly indicated isn't a good enough reason for you. Fine. The sides have been chosen, we all agree to disagree. Move on.

That's kind of like "because they hate freedom", or the other red herring BS like "some people say we should cut and run". There is no logic or substance to any of it. How does it protect the national security ?
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