The cost of supporting Israel ? - Page 11 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #101 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 05:31 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,556
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
A Muslim campaign to boycott Israel, Part 1

>
>
>As salaam alekum,
>
>A well reasoned piece - it is something that I wholeheartedly support.
Look
>for barcodes of the products you buy. A part of the barcode tells you
the
>country of orign of the product. All products from Israel start with
"729".
>Next look for multinational companies which are open supporters of the
>zionist regime. Stop buying their products as well. This is not going
to be
>easy - either from the perspective of convenience or of the
pocketbook. But
>then freedom, justice and peace never came cheap either.
>
>- Jameel.
>
>
>The Case for Boycotting Israel
>Boycott Now!
>
>By VIRGINIA TILLEY
>
>Johannesburg, South Africa.
>
>It is finally time. After years of internal arguments, confusion, and
>dithering, the time has come for a full-fledged international boycott
of
>Israel. Good cause for a boycott has, of course, been in place for
decades,
>as a raft of initiatives already attests. But Israel's war crimes are
now
>so shocking, its extremism so clear, the suffering so great, the UN so
>helpless, and the international community's need to contain Israel's
>behavior so urgent and compelling, that the time for global action has
>matured. A coordinated movement of divestment, sanctions, and boycotts
>against Israel must convene to contain not only Israel's aggressive
acts
>and crimes against humanitarian law but also, as in South Africa, its
>founding racist logics that inspired and still drive the entire
Palestinian
>problem.
>
>That second goal of the boycott campaign is indeed the primary one.
Calls
>for a boycott have long cited specific crimes: Israel's continual
attacks
>on Palestinian civilians; its casual disdain for the Palestinian
civilian
>lives "accidentally" destroyed in its assassinations and bombings; its
>deliberate ruin of the Palestinians' economic and social conditions;
its
>continuing annexation and dismemberment of Palestinian land; its
torture of
>prisoners; its contempt for UN resolutions and international law; and
>especially, its refusal to allow Palestinian refugees to return to
their
>homeland. But the boycott cannot target these practices alone. It must
>target their ideological source.
>
>The true offence to the international community is the racist
motivation
>for these practices, which violates fundamental values and norms of
the
>post-World War II order. That racial ideology isn't subtle or obscure.
Mr.
>Olmert himself has repeatedly thumped the public podium about the
>"demographic threat" facing Israel: the "threat" that too many
non-Jews
>will--the horror--someday become citizens of Israel. It is the
"demographic
>threat" that, in Israeli doctrine, justifies sealing off the West Bank
and
>Gaza Strip as open-air prisons for millions of people whose only real
crime
>is that they are not Jewish. It is the "demographic threat," not
security
>(Mr. Olmert has clarified), that requires the dreadful Wall to
separate
>Arab and Jewish communities, now juxtaposed in a fragmented landscape,
who
>might otherwise mingle.
>
>"Demographic threat" is the most disgustingly racist phrase still
openly
>deployed in international parlance. It has been mysteriously tolerated
by a
>perplexed international community. But it can be tolerated no longer.
>Zionist fear of the demographic threat launched the expulsion of the
>indigenous Arab population in 1948 and 1967, created and perpetuates
>Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, inspires its
terrible
>human rights abuses against Palestinians, spins into regional unrest
like
>the 1982 attack on Lebanon (that gave rise to Hezbollah), and
continues to
>drive Israeli militarism and aggression.
>
>This open official racism and its attendant violence casts Israel into
the
>ranks of pariah states, of which South Africa was the former banner
emblem.
>In both countries, racist nationalist logic tormented and humiliated
the
>native people. It also regularly spilled over to destabilize their
>surrounding regions (choc-a-block with "demographic threats"), leading
both
>regimes to cruel and reckless attacks. Driven by a sense of perennial
>victimhood, they assumed the moral authority to crush the native
hordes
>that threatened to dilute the organic Afrikaner/Jewish nations and the
>white/western civilization they believed they so nobly represented.
>
>A humiliated white society in South Africa finally gave that myth up.
>Israel still clings to it. It has now brought Israel to pulverize
Lebanon,
>trying to eliminate Hezbollah and, perhaps, to clear the way for an
attack
>on Iran. Peace offers from the entire Arab world are cast aside like
so
>much garbage. Yet again, the Middle East is plunged into chaos and
turmoil,
>because a normal existence -- peace, full democracy -- is anathema to
a
>regime that must see and treat its neighbors as an existential threat
in
>order to justify the rejectionism that preserves its ethnic/racial
>character and enables its continuing annexations of land.
>
>Why has this outrageously racist doctrine survived so long, rewarded
by
>billions of dollars in US aid every year? We know the reasons. For too
many
>Westerners, Israel's Jewish character conflates with the Holocaust
legacy
>to make intuitive sense of Israel's claim to be under continual
assault.
>Deep-seated Judeo-Christian bias against Islam demonizes Israel's
mostly
>Muslim victims. European racist prejudice against Arabs (brown-skinned
>natives) casts their material dispossession as less humanly
significant.
>Naïve Christian visions of the "Holy Land" naturalize Jewish
governance in
>biblical landscapes. Idiot Christian evangelistic notions of the
Rapture
>and the End Times posit Jewish governance as essential to the return
of the
>Messiah and the final Millennium (even though, in that repellent
narrative,
>Jews will roast afterwards).
>
>All those notions and prejudices, long confounding international
action,
>must now be set aside. The raw logic of Israel's distorted self-image
and
>racist doctrines is expressed beyond confusion by the now-stark
reality:
>the moonscape rubble of once-lovely Lebanese villages; a million
desperate
>people trying to survive Israeli aerial attacks as they carry children
and
>wheel disabled grandparents down cratered roads; the limp bodies of
>children pulled from the dusty basements of crushed buildings. This is
the
>reality of Israel's national doctrine, the direct outcome of its
racist
>worldview. It is endangering everyone, and it must stop.
>
>
>Designing the Campaign
>
>Much debate has circulated about a boycott campaign, but hitherto it
has
>not moved beyond some ardent but isolated groups. Efforts have stalled
on
>the usual difficult questions: e.g., whether a boycott is morally
>compulsory to reject Israel's rampant human rights violations or would
>impede vital engagement with Israeli forums, or whether principled
defense
>of international law must be tempered by (bogus) calls for "balance".
>Especially, recent debate has foundered on calls for an academic
boycott.
>Concerns here are reasonable, if rather narrow. Universities offer
vital
>connections and arenas for collaboration, debate, and new thinking.
Without
>such forums and their intellectual exchange, some argue, work toward a
>different future is arguably impeded.
>
>But this argument has exploded along with the southern Lebanese
villages,
>as Israeli university faculties roundly endorse the present war. As
Ilan
>Pappé has repeatedly argued, Israel's universities are not forums for
>enlightened thought. They are crucibles of reproduction for racist
Zionist
>logics and practice, monitoring and filtering admissible ideas. They
>produce the lawyers who defend the occupation regime and run its
kangaroo
>"courts"; the civil planners and engineers who design and build the
>settlements on Palestinian land; the economists and financiers who
design
>and implement the grants that subsidize those settlements; the
geologists
>who facilitate seizure of Palestinian aquifers; the doctors who treat
the
>tortured so that they can be tortured again; the historians and
>sociologists who make sense of a national society while preserving
official
>lies
>about its own past; and the poets, playwrights, and novelists who
compose
>the nationalist opus that glorifies and makes (internally, at least)
>moralistic sense of it all.
>
>Those of us who have met with Jewish Israeli academics in Israeli
>universities find the vast majority of them, including well-meaning
>liberals, operating in a strange and unique bubble of enabling
fictions.
>Most of them know nothing about Palestinian life, culture, or
experience.
>They know strangely little about the occupation and its realities,
which
>are crushing people just over the next hill. They have absorbed
simplistic
>notions about rejectionist Arafat, terrorist Hamas, and urbane Abbas.
In
>this special insulated world of illusions, they say nonsense things
about
>unreal factors and fictionalized events. Trying to make sense of their
>assumptions is no more productive that conversing about the Middle
East
>with the Bush administration's neo-cons, who also live in a strange
bubble
>of ignorance and fantasy. Aside from a few brave and beleaguered
souls,
>this
>is the world of Israel's universities. It will not change until it has
>to--when the conditions of its self-reproduction are impaired and its
>self-deceptions too glaring.
Teutone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #102 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,556
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
A Muslim campaign to boycott Israel, Part 2

>The Real Goal: Changing Minds
>
>The universities represent and reproduce the bubble world of the
Israeli
>Jewish population as a whole. And no people abandons its bubble
willingly.
>In South Africa, Afrikaners clung to their own bubble--their
>self-exonerating myths about history, civilization, and race -- until
they
>were forced by external sanctions and the collapsing national economy
to
>rethink those myths. Their resistance to doing so, while racist, was
not
>purely vicious. Many kind and well-meaning Afrikaners simply didn't
believe
>they had to rethink ideas that manifested to them as givens and that
shaped
>their reality. (One valued Afrikaner friend here recalls her life
during
>apartheid South Africa as being like The Truman Show, a film in which
a man
>unknowingly grows up in a television show, set in an artificial dome
world
>designed to look like a small town.) When their reality fell apart,
>suddenly no one would admit to ever having believed or supported it.
>
>The Zionist worldview is an even more complete system. All historical
and
>geographic details are provided to create a total mythical world, in
which
>Jews have rights to the land and Palestinians have none. It is a fully
>realized construction, like those Hebraized maps carefully drawn by
the
>Zionist movement in the 1930s to erase the ancient Arabic landscape
and
>substitute Hebrew biblical references. It is also very resilient. The
"new
>historians" have exposed the cherished national historical narrative
of
>1948 and 1967 as a load of fictions, but the same fictions are still
>reproduced by state agencies to assure Israeli and diaspora Jews of
their
>innocence and the righteousness of their cause. The vast majority of
>Israelis therefore remain comfortable in their Truman Show and even
see any
>external pressure or criticism as substantiating it. We need no more
>graphic evidence of that campaign's success than the overwhelming
support
>among Israeli Jews for the present catastrophic assault on Lebanon,
>reflecting their sincere beliefs that nuclear-power Israel is actually
>under existential threat by a guerrilla group lobbing katyushas across
the
>border. Staggering to observers, that belief is both sobering and
>instructive.
>
>To force people steeped in such a worldview to rethink their notions,
their
>historical myths, and their own best interests requires two efforts:
>
>
>(1) Serious external pressure: here, a full boycott that undermines
>Israel's capacity to sustain the economic standards its citizens and
>corporations expect, and which they associate with their own
progressive
>self-image; and
>
>(2) clear and unwavering commitment to the boycott's goal, which--in
Israel
>as in South Africa--must be full equality, dignity, safety, and
welfare of
>everyone in the land, including Palestinians, whose ancestral culture
arose
>there, and the Jewish population, which has built a national society
there.
>
>That combination is essential. Nothing else will work. Diplomacy,
threats,
>pleading, the "peace process," mediation, all will be useless until
>external pressure brings Israel's entire Jewish population to
undertake the
>very difficult task of rethinking their world. This pressure requires
the
>full range of boycotts, sanctions, and divestment that the world can
>employ. (South African intellectual Steven Friedman has observed wryly
that
>the way to bring down any established settler-colonial regime is to
make it
>choose between profits and identity. Profits, he says, will win every
>time.)
>
>
>
>What to Target
>
>Fortunately, from the South African experience, we know how to go
forward,
>and strategies are proliferating. The basic methods of an
international
>boycott campaign are familiar. First, each person works in his or her
own
>immediate orbit. People might urge divestment from companies investing
in
>Israel by their colleges and universities, corporations, clubs, and
>churches. Boycott any sports event that hosts an Israeli team, and
work
>with planners to exclude them. Participate in, and visit, no Israeli
>cultural events--films, plays, music, art exhibits. Avoid
collaborating
>with Israeli professional colleagues, except on anti-racist activism.
Don't
>invite any Israeli academic or writer to contribute to any conference
or
>research and don't attend their panels or buy their books, unless
their
>work is engaged directly in anti-racist activism. Don't visit Israel
>except for purposes of anti-racist activism. Buy nothing made in
Israel:
>start looking at labels on olive oil, oranges, and clothing. Tell
people
>what you are doing and why. Set up discussion groups everywhere to
explain
>why.
>
>For ideas and allies, try Googling the "boycott Israel" and "sanctions
>against Israel" campaigns springing up around the world. Know those
allies,
>like the major churches, and tell people about them. For more ideas,
read
>about the history of the boycott of South Africa.
>
>Second, don't be confused by liberal Zionist alternatives that argue
>against a boycott in favor of "dialogue". If we can draw any
conclusion
>from the last half-century, it is that, without the boycott, dialogue
will
>go nowhere. And don't be confused by liberal-Zionist arguments that
Israel
>will allow Palestinians a state if they only do this or that. Israel
is
>already the only sovereign power in Palestine: what fragments are left
to
>Palestinians cannot make a state. The question now is not whether
there is
>one state, but what kind of state it comprises. The present version is
>apartheid, and it must change. However difficult to achieve, and
however
>frightening to Jewish Israelis, the only just and stable solution is
full
>democracy.
>
>Third, be prepared for the boycott's opposition, which will be much
louder,
>more vicious, and more dangerous than it was in the boycott of South
>Africa. Read and assemble solid documentable facts. Support each other
>loudly and publicly against the inevitable charges of anti-Semitism.
And
>support your media against the same charges. Write to news media and
>explain just who the "Israel media teams" actually are. Most
pro-Israeli
>activism draws directly from the Israeli government's propaganda
outreach
>programs. Spotlight this fact. Team up to counter their pressure on
>newspapers, radio stations, and television news forums. Don't let them
>capture or intimidate public debate. By insisting loudly (and it must
be
>sincere) that the goal is the full equality of dignity and rights of
>everyone in Israel-Palestine, including the millions of Jewish
citizens of
>Israel, demolish their specious claims of anti-Semitism.
>
>Finally, hold true to the principles that drive the boycott's mission.
>Don't tolerate the slightest whiff of anti-Semitism in your own group
or
>movement. Anti-Jewish racists are certainly out there, and they are
>attracted to these campaigns like roaches. They will distract and
absorb
>your energies, while undermining, degrading, and destroying the
boycott
>movement. Some are Zionist plants, who will do so deliberately. If you
>can't change their minds (and don't spend much time trying, because
they
>will use your efforts to drain your time and distract your energies),
>denounce them, expel them, ignore them, have no truck with them. They
are
>the enemy of a peaceful future, not its allies--part of the problem,
not
>the solution.
Teutone is offline  
post #103 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 05:48 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,556
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
A Muslim campaign to boycott Israel, Part 3

Boycott the Hegemon
>
>This is the moment to turn international pressure on the complicit US,
too.
>It's impossible, today, to exert an effective boycott on the United
States,
>as its products are far too ubiquitous in our lives. But it's quick
and
>easy to launch a boycott of emblematic US products, upsetting its
major
>corporations. It's especially easy to boycott the great global
consumables,
>like Coca-Cola, MacDonald's, Burger King, and KFC, whose leverage has
>brought anti-democratic pressures on governments the world over.
(Through
>ugly monopoly practices, Coke is a nasty player in developing
countries
>anyway: see, for example, http://www.killercoke.org.) Think you'll
miss
>these foods too much? Is consuming something else for a while too much
of a
>sacrifice, given what is happening to people in Lebanon? And think of
the
>local products you'll be supporting! (And how healthy you will get).
>
>In the US, the impact of these measures may be small. But in Africa,
Latin
>America, Europe, and the Arab and Muslim worlds, boycotting these
famous
>brands can gain national scope and the impact on corporate profits
will be
>enormous. Never underestimate the power of US corporations to leverage
US
>foreign policy. They are the one force that consistently does so.
>
>But always, always, remember the goal and vision. Anger and hatred,
arising
>from the Lebanon debacle, must be channelled not into retaliation and
>vengeance but into principled action. Armed struggle against
occupation
>remains legitimate and, if properly handled (no killing of civilians),
is a
>key tool. But the goal of all efforts, of every stamp, must be to
secure
>security for everyone, toward building a new peaceful future. It's
very
>hard, in the midst of our moral outrage, to stay on the high road.
That
>challenge is, however, well-known to human rights campaigns as it is
to all
>three monotheistic faiths. It is what Islam knows as the "great
jihad"--the
>struggle of the heart. It must remain the guiding torch of this
effort,
>which we must defend together.
>
>Virginia Tilley is a professor of political science, a US citizen
working
>in South Africa, and author of The One-State Solution: A Breakthrough
for
>Peace in the Israeli-Palestinian Deadlock (University of Michigan
Press and
>Manchester University Press, 2005). She can be reached at
tilley@hws.edu.
>
>Copyright Virginia Tilley and CounterPunch.
Teutone is offline  
post #104 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 11:16 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
baby boo's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm predicting that this Christian Arab is not going to be joining the boycott:

Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel, delivered at the Duke University Counter Terrorism Speak-Out

I'm proud and honoured to stand here today, as a Lebanese speaking for Israel , the only democracy in the Middle East . As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

I was raised in Lebanon , where I was taught that the Jews were evil, Israel was the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

When the Moslems and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians, city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon . My mother was wounded by a Moslem's shell, and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw. There were hundreds of people wounded, Moslems, Palestinians, Christians, Lebanese, and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn't see religion, they didn't see political affiliation, they saw people in need and they helped.

>For the first time in my life I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis, who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital. Those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized I was sold a fabricated lie by my government, about the Jews and Israel , that was so far from reality. I knew for fact that, if I was a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown over to the grounds, as shouts of joy of Allah Akbar, God is great, would echo through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

I became friends with the families of the Israeli wounded soldiers: one in particular Rina, her only child was wounded in his eyes.

One day I was visiting with her, and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem , Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started waking out of the room, and this
mother holds my hand and pulls me back in without even looking at me.
She holds me crying and says: "it is not your fault". We just stood there crying, holding each other's hands.

What a contrast between her, a mother looking at her deformed 19 year old only child, and still able to love me the enemy, and between a Moslem mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's barbarism verses civilization. It's democracy verses dictatorship. It's goodness verses evil.

Once upon a time, there was a special place in the lowest depths of hell for anyone who would intentionally murder a child. Now, the intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian "armed struggle".

However, once such behaviour is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized every where in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.

Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York , from Moscow to Madrid , from Bali to Beslan.

They blame suicide bombing on "desperation of occupation". Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred ten weeks before Israel even became independent.

On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948 , in anticipation of Israel 's independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street , in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem . Fifty-four people were killed, and hundreds were wounded. Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by the "desperation" of "occupation", but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.

So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time to all stand up, and support and defend the state of Israel , which is the front line of the war against terrorism.
baby boo is offline  
post #105 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 01:21 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
SILVER ARROW's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2003
Vehicle: Mercedes SL R129
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to SILVER ARROW
Quote:
Originally Posted by baby boo
I'm predicting that this Christian Arab is not going to be joining the boycott:

Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel, delivered at the Duke University Counter Terrorism Speak-Out

I'm proud and honoured to stand here today, as a Lebanese speaking for Israel , the only democracy in the Middle East . As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

I was raised in Lebanon , where I was taught that the Jews were evil, Israel was the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

When the Moslems and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians, city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon . My mother was wounded by a Moslem's shell, and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw. There were hundreds of people wounded, Moslems, Palestinians, Christians, Lebanese, and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn't see religion, they didn't see political affiliation, they saw people in need and they helped.

>For the first time in my life I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis, who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital. Those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized I was sold a fabricated lie by my government, about the Jews and Israel , that was so far from reality. I knew for fact that, if I was a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown over to the grounds, as shouts of joy of Allah Akbar, God is great, would echo through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

I became friends with the families of the Israeli wounded soldiers: one in particular Rina, her only child was wounded in his eyes.

One day I was visiting with her, and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem , Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started waking out of the room, and this
mother holds my hand and pulls me back in without even looking at me.
She holds me crying and says: "it is not your fault". We just stood there crying, holding each other's hands.

What a contrast between her, a mother looking at her deformed 19 year old only child, and still able to love me the enemy, and between a Moslem mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's barbarism verses civilization. It's democracy verses dictatorship. It's goodness verses evil.

Once upon a time, there was a special place in the lowest depths of hell for anyone who would intentionally murder a child. Now, the intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian "armed struggle".

However, once such behaviour is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized every where in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.

Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York , from Moscow to Madrid , from Bali to Beslan.

They blame suicide bombing on "desperation of occupation". Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred ten weeks before Israel even became independent.

On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948 , in anticipation of Israel 's independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street , in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem . Fifty-four people were killed, and hundreds were wounded. Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by the "desperation" of "occupation", but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.

So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time to all stand up, and support and defend the state of Israel , which is the front line of the war against terrorism.
And you thought that all Arabs have same view!!!
It's true that many Lebanese Christians were friends with Israel in the past, but now after the current Israeli aggression in Lebanon, over 80% of Lebanese Christians are with Hezbollah. Especially after their areas were shelled. SCORE!!!

SL SILVER ARROW WITH PANORAMIC HARDTOP, XENON, AMG FULL KIT, PARKTONIC SENSORS ... EVERY AVAILABLE OPTION!!!


<img src="http://www.benzworld.org/gallery/pics/104312611950642005120548PM.jpg" border=0>
SILVER ARROW is offline  
post #106 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 02:13 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
baby boo's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That poor lady (she was on FOX news today) represents such a tiny minority of arab thinking that it's the exception that proves the rule.

We all know that there are isolated pockets of common sense among the arab peoples. Did you ever check out World Net Daily? Mr Farrah is a Lebanese Christian who is totally pro-Israel. Look at www.wnd.com.

Israel did, indeed, have many friends among the Lebanese Christian community for many years. It is understandable that, while their country is under attack, they would support the Lebanese government in a show of unity. But I'm predicting that all Lebanese will have second thoughts about Hezbollah after the dust settles. Sure some will say that Hezbollah had bravely defended the Israeli invasion forces. Upon further reflection, however, perhaps they will conclude that the invasion would not have been necessary had it not been for Hezbollah's provocations in the first place.
baby boo is offline  
post #107 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 02:21 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
SILVER ARROW's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2003
Vehicle: Mercedes SL R129
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to SILVER ARROW
Quote:
Originally Posted by baby boo
That poor lady (she was on FOX news today) represents such a tiny minority of arab thinking that it's the exception that proves the rule.

We all know that there are isolated pockets of common sense among the arab peoples. Did you ever check out World Net Daily? Mr Farrah is a Lebanese Christian who is totally pro-Israel. Look at www.wnd.com.

Israel did, indeed, have many friends among the Lebanese Christian community for many years. It is understandable that, while their country is under attack, they would support the Lebanese government in a show of unity. But I'm predicting that all Lebanese will have second thoughts about Hezbollah after the dust settles. Sure some will say that Hezbollah had bravely defended the Israeli invasion forces. Upon further reflection, however, perhaps they will conclude that the invasion would not have been necessary had it not been for Hezbollah's provocations in the first place.
I totally agree with you on all that. But I would change ALL to SOME Lebanese. Hezbollah will still have most of its Shiite supporters. Without a doubt, there will be a reflection by Lebanese on all this.

SL SILVER ARROW WITH PANORAMIC HARDTOP, XENON, AMG FULL KIT, PARKTONIC SENSORS ... EVERY AVAILABLE OPTION!!!


<img src="http://www.benzworld.org/gallery/pics/104312611950642005120548PM.jpg" border=0>
SILVER ARROW is offline  
post #108 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 04:52 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
baby boo's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVER ARROW
And you thought that all Arabs have same view!!!
...... SCORE!!!

I'll be honest with you Azziz, I threw out that challenge to the professor knowing full well that some brave arab-americans had spoken out against terrorism in general and Hezbollah in particular. In fact you may recall that I previously posted a link to Dr. Wafa Sultan's comments on Al-Jezeera:

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1050#

If you recall the professor had posted an article by a jewish "intellectual" criticising Israel's strategy in Lebanon. What I tried to do was to trap him into posting a similar article supporting the Israeli position. I wanted him to provide the counterpoint to the article he had posted.

But as I've said before (and I still believe to be true) the diversity of opinion among the Jewish community regarding Israel is far greater than that of the arab community who almost reflexly criticise Israel.

In any case I also wanted to say to you that I feel you have conducted yourself with courage, dignity and composure throughout these very trying times and, whatever our political differences may be I pray that you and your family will remain safe...
baby boo is offline  
post #109 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 07:26 PM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by baby boo
I'll be honest with you Azziz, I threw out that challenge to the professor knowing full well that some brave arab-americans had spoken out against terrorism in general and Hezbollah in particular. In fact you may recall that I previously posted a link to Dr. Wafa Sultan's comments on Al-Jezeera:

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1050#

If you recall the professor had posted an article by a jewish "intellectual" criticising Israel's strategy in Lebanon. What I tried to do was to trap him into posting a similar article supporting the Israeli position. I wanted him to provide the counterpoint to the article he had posted.

But as I've said before (and I still believe to be true) the diversity of opinion among the Jewish community regarding Israel is far greater than that of the arab community who almost reflexly criticise Israel.

In any case I also wanted to say to you that I feel you have conducted yourself with courage, dignity and composure throughout these very trying times and, whatever our political differences may be I pray that you and your family will remain safe...

Thank you Boo, that's more like it.
DP is offline  
post #110 of 301 (permalink) Old 08-08-2006, 09:39 PM
Premium Member
 
offroadwarrior's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2006
Vehicle: Nice, Fast, Luxurious.
Location: NY
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Premium Member
Angry Teutone, The Spammer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutone
>The Real Goal: Changing Minds
>
>The universities represent and reproduce the bubble world of the
Israeli
>Jewish population as a whole. And no people abandons its bubble
willingly.
>In South Africa, Afrikaners clung to their own bubble--their
>self-exonerating myths about history, civilization, and race -- until
they
>were forced by external sanctions and the collapsing national economy
to
>rethink those myths. Their resistance to doing so, while racist, was
not
>purely vicious. Many kind and well-meaning Afrikaners simply didn't
believe
>they had to rethink ideas that manifested to them as givens and that
shaped
>their reality. (One valued Afrikaner friend here recalls her life
during
>apartheid South Africa as being like The Truman Show, a film in which
a man
>unknowingly grows up in a television show, set in an artificial dome
world
>designed to look like a small town.) When their reality fell apart,
>suddenly no one would admit to ever having believed or supported it.
>
>The Zionist worldview is an even more complete system. All historical
and
>geographic details are provided to create a total mythical world, in
which
>Jews have rights to the land and Palestinians have none. It is a fully
>realized construction, like those Hebraized maps carefully drawn by
the
>Zionist movement in the 1930s to erase the ancient Arabic landscape
and
>substitute Hebrew biblical references. It is also very resilient. The
"new
>historians" have exposed the cherished national historical narrative
of
>1948 and 1967 as a load of fictions, but the same fictions are still
>reproduced by state agencies to assure Israeli and diaspora Jews of
their
>innocence and the righteousness of their cause. The vast majority of
>Israelis therefore remain comfortable in their Truman Show and even
see any
>external pressure or criticism as substantiating it. We need no more
>graphic evidence of that campaign's success than the overwhelming
support
>among Israeli Jews for the present catastrophic assault on Lebanon,
>reflecting their sincere beliefs that nuclear-power Israel is actually
>under existential threat by a guerrilla group lobbing katyushas across
the
>border. Staggering to observers, that belief is both sobering and
>instructive.
>
>To force people steeped in such a worldview to rethink their notions,
their
>historical myths, and their own best interests requires two efforts:
>
>
>(1) Serious external pressure: here, a full boycott that undermines
>Israel's capacity to sustain the economic standards its citizens and
>corporations expect, and which they associate with their own
progressive
>self-image; and
>
>(2) clear and unwavering commitment to the boycott's goal, which--in
Israel
>as in South Africa--must be full equality, dignity, safety, and
welfare of
>everyone in the land, including Palestinians, whose ancestral culture
arose
>there, and the Jewish population, which has built a national society
there.
>
>That combination is essential. Nothing else will work. Diplomacy,
threats,
>pleading, the "peace process," mediation, all will be useless until
>external pressure brings Israel's entire Jewish population to
undertake the
>very difficult task of rethinking their world. This pressure requires
the
>full range of boycotts, sanctions, and divestment that the world can
>employ. (South African intellectual Steven Friedman has observed wryly
that
>the way to bring down any established settler-colonial regime is to
make it
>choose between profits and identity. Profits, he says, will win every
>time.)
>
>
>
>What to Target
>
>Fortunately, from the South African experience, we know how to go
forward,
>and strategies are proliferating. The basic methods of an
international
>boycott campaign are familiar. First, each person works in his or her
own
>immediate orbit. People might urge divestment from companies investing
in
>Israel by their colleges and universities, corporations, clubs, and
>churches. Boycott any sports event that hosts an Israeli team, and
work
>with planners to exclude them. Participate in, and visit, no Israeli
>cultural events--films, plays, music, art exhibits. Avoid
collaborating
>with Israeli professional colleagues, except on anti-racist activism.
Don't
>invite any Israeli academic or writer to contribute to any conference
or
>research and don't attend their panels or buy their books, unless
their
>work is engaged directly in anti-racist activism. Don't visit Israel
>except for purposes of anti-racist activism. Buy nothing made in
Israel:
>start looking at labels on olive oil, oranges, and clothing. Tell
people
>what you are doing and why. Set up discussion groups everywhere to
explain
>why.
>
>For ideas and allies, try Googling the "boycott Israel" and "sanctions
>against Israel" campaigns springing up around the world. Know those
allies,
>like the major churches, and tell people about them. For more ideas,
read
>about the history of the boycott of South Africa.
>
>Second, don't be confused by liberal Zionist alternatives that argue
>against a boycott in favor of "dialogue". If we can draw any
conclusion
>from the last half-century, it is that, without the boycott, dialogue
will
>go nowhere. And don't be confused by liberal-Zionist arguments that
Israel
>will allow Palestinians a state if they only do this or that. Israel
is
>already the only sovereign power in Palestine: what fragments are left
to
>Palestinians cannot make a state. The question now is not whether
there is
>one state, but what kind of state it comprises. The present version is
>apartheid, and it must change. However difficult to achieve, and
however
>frightening to Jewish Israelis, the only just and stable solution is
full
>democracy.
>
>Third, be prepared for the boycott's opposition, which will be much
louder,
>more vicious, and more dangerous than it was in the boycott of South
>Africa. Read and assemble solid documentable facts. Support each other
>loudly and publicly against the inevitable charges of anti-Semitism.
And
>support your media against the same charges. Write to news media and
>explain just who the "Israel media teams" actually are. Most
pro-Israeli
>activism draws directly from the Israeli government's propaganda
outreach
>programs. Spotlight this fact. Team up to counter their pressure on
>newspapers, radio stations, and television news forums. Don't let them
>capture or intimidate public debate. By insisting loudly (and it must
be
>sincere) that the goal is the full equality of dignity and rights of
>everyone in Israel-Palestine, including the millions of Jewish
citizens of
>Israel, demolish their specious claims of anti-Semitism.
>
>Finally, hold true to the principles that drive the boycott's mission.
>Don't tolerate the slightest whiff of anti-Semitism in your own group
or
>movement. Anti-Jewish racists are certainly out there, and they are
>attracted to these campaigns like roaches. They will distract and
absorb
>your energies, while undermining, degrading, and destroying the
boycott
>movement. Some are Zionist plants, who will do so deliberately. If you
>can't change their minds (and don't spend much time trying, because
they
>will use your efforts to drain your time and distract your energies),
>denounce them, expel them, ignore them, have no truck with them. They
are
>the enemy of a peaceful future, not its allies--part of the problem,
not
>the solution.
3-Parts Post is too long. My brain hurts terribly.

Mi$ter Right.

Last edited by offroadwarrior; 08-08-2006 at 09:45 PM.
offroadwarrior is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Benz World SUCKS! Shame on them for supporting terrorist badmofo Off-Topic 24 07-21-2006 01:51 PM
    Israel Escalating -- Chem attack to Israel --10:33 mcbear Off-Topic 41 07-01-2006 06:13 AM
    10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t elau Off-Topic 90 11-26-2005 10:03 PM
    Democratic Comments supporting War 560DBleu Off-Topic 47 11-17-2005 03:44 PM
    You're all supporting terrorists.... TK W163 M-Class 23 01-10-2003 10:03 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome