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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Was Murtha Right?

Haditha evidence implicates Marines from MSNBC
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MSNBC.com


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Source: Haditha evidence implicates Marines
Investigators reportedly finish initial review in deaths of 24 civilians
The Associated Press


Updated: 12:23 a.m. ET Aug 2, 2006
WASHINGTON - Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.

Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.

The decision on whether to press criminal charges against four Marines ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines’ parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

The Marines initially reported after the Nov. 19, 2005 killings that 15 Iraqi civilians at Haditha had been killed by a makeshift roadside bomb and in crossfire between Marines and insurgent attackers. Based on accounts from survivors and human rights groups, Time magazine first reported in March that the killings were deliberate acts by the Marines.

A criminal investigation was then ordered by the top Marine commander in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer.


A parallel investigation is examining whether officers in the Marines’ chain of command tried to cover up the events. The probe, which has not been made public, faults some officers for failing to pursue obvious discrepancies in the initial reports about what happened in Haditha and for not launching an early investigation.

Public attention on the Haditha case grew after Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a former Marine, asserted publicly on May 17 that he had learned from Marine Corps officials that innocent Iraqis had been killed “in cold blood.”

Lawyers for Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, one of the Marines under investigation, argue in a lawsuit to be filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich of murder and war crimes. The suit maintains that Pentagon officials “who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information” and that the congressman subsequently “has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory” to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.

Among the other cases of alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians, eight Marines have been charged with premeditated murder and other criminal acts in connection with the killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdania on April 26. Also, five soldiers and a former soldier have been charged in the March 12 rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14150687/?GT1=8404


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© 2006 MSNBC.com

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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 11:50 AM
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My thoughts are that the deliberate killing of civilians is reprehensible. However we should not have a double standard on this like the Arab world. Killing of israeli civilians is equally reprehensible but fails to elicit any outrage among the arabs.

The guilty should be punished.

On both sides.
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 11:54 AM
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Why do you hate America, Shabah? You know we have to kill the Iraqis to save them, that's the American way. You know these men were only trying to disarm those Iraqis. Just ask this kid, he needed to be disarmed.

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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
My thoughts are that the deliberate killing of civilians is reprehensible. However we should not have a double standard on this like the Arab world. Killing of israeli civilians is equally reprehensible but fails to elicit any outrage among the arabs.

The guilty should be punished.

On both sides.
What the fuck has "we should not have a double standard on this" mean? What are you trying to say?
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by baby boo
My thoughts are that the deliberate killing of civilians is reprehensible. However we should not have a double standard on this like the Arab world. Killing of israeli civilians is equally reprehensible but fails to elicit any outrage among the arabs.

The guilty should be punished.

On both sides.
No Baby Boo, the US and Israel has a double standard when it comes to killing Arabs. If that was not true, we would not be deep in this shit because somewhere on that timeline that covers the last fifty years we would have all stopped the insanity. I will give you an example, remember Sharron's sponsoring of Sabra and Chatilla? Do you see signs all over the Arab World or yours that says Never Again? I don't think so because their lives were cheap and meaningless as far as you are concerned but God forbid it's one of you and the sky will fall. Look at Lebanon right now paying a price. Is Israel being invaded right now for the killings it sponsored in Gaza, Lebanon and eleswhere?
You can't bring up the Arabs as an elemnet in your argument because they are impotent and you made sure of that. So when you cry that you are victim pleace make sure that you display your crocodile tears a little better so we can fee the love...
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 12:15 PM
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I think that people (on both sides) who deliberately target civilians should be punished.

Do you have an issue with that statement?
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Why do you hate America, Shabah? You know we have to kill the Iraqis to save them, that's the American way. You know these men were only trying to disarm those Iraqis. Just ask this kid, he needed to be disarmed.

Yeah I figured that so far. Like I heard someone here say "we need to remove the cancer". Well whoever said it let me correct you, the problem with the middle east is not cancer but microbial.

Do I hate America? no, but I whish America that it wises up and takes care of her problems before injecting new ones around the world. Your government is run by corrupt and incompetent thugs. They are no better than Saddam or the Mullah in Iran. Look at your congress a bunch of woosies that are paid by lobbyists to make laws. Where is the people power? I guess that's just mentioned around elections where you are, then back to business as usual. America is its own worse enemy if it keeps it up.
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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by baby boo
I think that people (on both sides) who deliberately target civilians should be punished.

Do you have an issue with that statement?

Nice broad satement. Are you an idealist?
Should is not the same as must. Isarel does not respect that same ideal you think is dear to you. The Arabs can't eiether even if they tried. Everytime a secular group in the Arab World is rising up Isarel and the US makes sure that the Islamo-fascist fundamentalists will take care of them. This problem in your hand you fabricated it. Arabs leaders are pussies if you ask me.
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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Shabah
Nice broad satement. Are you an idealist?
Should is not the same as must. Isarel does not respect that same ideal you think is dear to you. The Arabs can't eiether even if they tried. Everytime a secular group in the Arab World is rising up Isarel and the US makes sure that the Islamo-fascist fundamentalists will take care of them. This problem in your hand you fabricated it. Arabs leaders are pussies if you ask me.
You asked about comments concerning the (alleged) marine masacre.

I replied that (if guilty) they should be punished.

But we should not have a double standard. Let's not condemn acts of terorism only against the arabs.

Let me give you an example: Remember the palestinian bomber several years ago who blew up civlians in a pizza parlor in Israel? Do you recall the display that was set up subsequently in Egypt showing a store with pizza, blood and body parts scattered all over mocking the victims of this incident?

I do.

You mentioned Sabra and Shatilla. Are you aware of any Jewish/Israeli citzens mocking their deaths????
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2006, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by baby boo
You asked about comments concerning the (alleged) marine masacre.

I replied that (if guilty) they should be punished.

But we should not have a double standard. Let's not condemn acts of terorism only against the arabs.

Let me give you an example: Remember the palestinian bomber several years ago who blew up civlians in a pizza parlor in Israel? Do you recall the display that was set up subsequently in Egypt showing a store with pizza, blood and body parts scattered all over mocking the victims of this incident?

I do.

You mentioned Sabra and Shatilla. Are you aware of any Jewish/Israeli citzens mocking their deaths????
Yeah I am aware of those events. Israel is an identifiable entity and it must be held reponsible for its actions. Israel wanted to be a country then be it it needs to take the risk that goes with it. That's how we operate in a civil society, you have a business you must buy inssurance.
The Pals have no government or anyone that can be held liable in person for their atrocities. Who's fault is that? Sharon on the other end is going to his grave without having been in front of a court about the Sabra and Chatilla massacres and yes whoever protected his ass is laghing, believe me...
Egypt is a free country (well that's a missnomer) and they can express their macabre any way they want as long as they were not the ones responsible for the bombing. Or maybe you think that all Arab countries should be accountable? Well in that case the US should be accountable for all of Israel's actions, no?
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