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post #221 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Maybe it would be a good idea not to precipitate a war if the only place you have to hide is behind the civilian population.

Ever think of that one?
LOL
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post #222 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baby boo
Maybe it would be a good idea not to precipitate a war if the only place you have to hide is behind the civilian population.

Ever think of that one?
How about this one?

"The Hezbolah freedom fighters don't really give a shit about the civilian population that is not in their camp, and figure the ones that are, are volunteers to be used as the cause sees fit. That makes them all eligible for use as fodder if the cause sees fit."

or,

"Since it is only those who listen to the referees and look at the photos who are affected by the graphic displays of civillians being murdered, and the Hezbolah are doing none of that, why should they let one of their most effective long term weapons be silenced?"

I have yet to hear a reason that would be compelling to Hezbolah or Hamas or Al Qaeda or "you-name-the-Islamic-Fundamentalist-shitbird-group-of-the-day," to stop using the civillian population as cover. We are not getting any traction with our claims that that is what is going on, and they are making great strides in making us look like the same level of shitbirds they are. In fact, we are being outwitted and out PR'd by these cretins. Our "leaders" are charlatans - simpleton cowboys who refuse to learn anything new, apparently purposefully, who have turned over the reigns in this "war on terror" to the terrorists because they just can't keep up. Squealing about how hard all this makes it when we have previously showed movies of cruise missiles flying in a specific window of a specific building in the middle of a city makes us look like a spoiled bully. We are pissing and moaning about an enemy who is merely trying a little harder to survive while he fights off our invasion. It just sounds like want them to make it easy for us to kill them, which makes us look unreasonable and, actually, a little dopey. Which we don't get, yet Hezbolah, Hamas, etc. all "get." Jim
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post #223 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by guage
LOL

"LOL" = "Laughing Out Loud" right? Yeah guage, that was a real knee slapper. I think I can hear you HeeHawing from here. Jim
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post #224 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
How about this one?

"The Hezbolah freedom fighters don't really give a shit about the civilian population that is not in their camp, and figure the ones that are, are volunteers to be used as the cause sees fit. That makes them all eligible for use as fodder if the cause sees fit."

or,

"Since it is only those who listen to the referees and look at the photos who are affected by the graphic displays of civillians being murdered, and the Hezbolah are doing none of that, why should they let one of their most effective long term weapons be silenced?"

I have yet to hear a reason that would be compelling to Hezbolah or Hamas or Al Qaeda or "you-name-the-Islamic-Fundamentalist-shitbird-group-of-the-day," to stop using the civillian population as cover. We are not getting any traction with our claims that that is what is going on, and they are making great strides in making us look like the same level of shitbirds they are. In fact, we are being outwitted and out PR'd by these cretins. Our "leaders" are charlatans - simpleton cowboys who refuse to learn anything new, apparently purposefully, who have turned over the reigns in this "war on terror" to the terrorists because they just can't keep up. Squealing about how hard all this makes it when we have previously showed movies of cruise missiles flying in a specific window of a specific building in the middle of a city makes us look like a spoiled bully. We are pissing and moaning about an enemy who is merely trying a little harder to survive while he fights off our invasion. It just sounds like want them to make it easy for us to kill them, which makes us look unreasonable and, actually, a little dopey. Which we don't get, yet Hezbolah, Hamas, etc. all "get." Jim
Wow Jim, you need to forward this to our war gurus
You hit the nail about their methodologies but let me add that Israel is actually loosing much leverage that took it years to build up at the cost of many lives. After all is done, that is Israel probably will reach Beirut and so what? It will retreat with much less than it started with. I am certain the Shebaa Farms will be given back. Yes it belongs to Lebanon and should be given back eventually but they could have used it as a negotiating token rather than a concession. Now after such an incursion how many lives do you think will be lost on both sides to achieve this poor strategic maneuver?
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post #225 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
"LOL" = "Laughing Out Loud" right? Yeah guage, that was a real knee slapper. I think I can hear you HeeHawing from here. Jim
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
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post #226 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:32 PM
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Wow Jim, you need to forward this to our war gurus
You hit the nail about their methodologies but let me add that Israel is actually loosing much leverage that took it years to build up at the cost of many lives. After all is done, that is Israel probably will reach Beirut and so what? It will retreat with much less than it started with. I am certain the Shebaa Farms will be given back. Yes it belongs to Lebanon and should be given back eventually but they could have used it as a negotiating token rather than a concession. Now after such an incursion how many lives do you think will be lost on both sides to achieve this poor strategic maneuver?
I don't pretend to know what goes on in the minds of the Israelis and their neighbors. To me your suggested outcome depends on all this being subject to a bunch of refereeing in the UN and the world opinion polls. Which Israel has successfully ignored in the past and will try to do again in the future. The Shebaa Farms land you suggest could have been a bargaining chip may just have been replaced by the bulk of Lebanon. A bigger bargaining chip they are also willing to pay for with the lives of civilians. The Israelis can just wait out public opinion, continue to play the persecuted and tortured martyr as Arabs throw themselves wrapped in bombs at the Israeli population for the next decade and the details of why this is all going on get fuzzy again. The Israelis seem to be able to innovate better than we can at the moment so I would not be too sure about any predictions I might make about what their next move might be. Jim
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post #227 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
... We are pissing and moaning about an enemy who is merely trying a little harder to survive while he fights off our invasion. It just sounds like want them to make it easy for us to kill them, which makes us look unreasonable and, actually, a little dopey. Which we don't get, yet Hezbolah, Hamas, etc. all "get." Jim
Well do you think we can get a stipulation from hezbollah that their war strategy involves hiding behind the civilian population?

I would have more respect for them if they did.

Of course Hezbollah has won the PR war. When the world consists of rogue nations like Iran and Syria and nations like France who are anxious to undermine America's role that comes as no surprise.
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post #228 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
I don't pretend to know what goes on in the minds of the Israelis and their neighbors. To me your suggested outcome depends on all this being subject to a bunch of refereeing in the UN and the world opinion polls. Which Israel has successfully ignored in the past and will try to do again in the future. The Shebaa Farms land you suggest could have been a bargaining chip may just have been replaced by the bulk of Lebanon. A bigger bargaining chip they are also willing to pay for with the lives of civilians. The Israelis can just wait out public opinion, continue to play the persecuted and tortured martyr as Arabs throw themselves wrapped in bombs at the Israeli population for the next decade and the details of why this is all going on get fuzzy again. The Israelis seem to be able to innovate better than we can at the moment so I would not be too sure about any predictions I might make about what their next move might be. Jim
Very prudent of you but you must agree that it feels like we are heading for an endless "war on terrorism" rather than a suitable solution for that region and the whole world.
I think using Lebanon as a bargaining chip is actually much better than my butcher block analogy that I have used. Anyway, let's see how the Syrian variable will play into this equation.
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post #229 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:47 PM
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See here how cynical people with an agenda and the media conspire for propaganda purposes to stage these images from Qana being transmitted around the world:

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/200...ilking-it.html
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post #230 of 470 (permalink) Old 07-31-2006, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baby boo
Well do you think we can get a stipulation from hezbollah that their war strategy involves hiding behind the civilian population?

I would have more respect for them if they did.

Of course Hezbollah has won the PR war. When the world consists of rogue nations like Iran and Syria and nations like France who are anxious to undermine America's role that comes as no surprise.
Baby boo, get off the hiding behind the civilian argument, that's simply an argument put forth by the Israeli and American PR groups to shape our impression of the situation. Hezbollah is made up of civilians just like the Suisse Army except they can't afford uniforms, tanks and fighter jets. They will fight with whatever they have and that's no different than what the Vietnamese did and the FLN we discussed earlier.
Accept the fact that the "foe" will be difficult to isolate. What's one to do? Kill them all?
The solution in my opinion is to isolate the problem. Israel needs to hold direct talks with Lebanon and Syria shunting Hezbollah all together. What do you think of that? No Americans should be allowed to mediate, trust me on that. They will fuck it up. This could be mediated by Turkey that enjoys cordial relationships with Israel and is not necessarily a dear friend of Syria but Turkey has a vested interest in the stability of that region. Think about something along those lines, not how we are going to kill them.
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