"I'm a Muslim American; I'm angry at Israel" - Page 14 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #131 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 03:37 PM
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If I tought that an immidiate cease fire would dissarm Hezbolla, I would be with you 100%. If the Lebanese army can't do it, you know some phony UN peace keeping force (joke) won't be able to do it. It would seem that this is the only way that will work. I am very dissappointed that Isreal did not stick with the temp cease fire to all the civilians to evacuate. So don't think that I believe Isreal is squeaky clean in all this mess. My biggest fear is that there will be a cease fire. A UN (Mostly US) force will go into keep the peace. An American soldier will end up shooting the wrong person and the picture will be all over Al Jazzer and no one will remember for a second that they wanted the US to step in to stop the bombing. Then there will be banners and buring flags saying, "US go home". Murders, etc. Of course, I don't think we will see any German troops. Even though they support Isreal, can you imagine the propaganda if a German soldier shoot a jewish person. Talk about WWIII!
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post #132 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 03:41 PM
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It was 2 A.M, the roads were cut and there was shelling all over the place. How do they expect an immediate rescue is beyond me...
That has conveniently escaped the article
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post #133 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Robschaef
If I tought that an immidiate cease fire would dissarm Hezbolla, I would be with you 100%. If the Lebanese army can't do it, you know some phony UN peace keeping force (joke) won't be able to do it. It would seem that this is the only way that will work. I am very dissappointed that Isreal did not stick with the temp cease fire to all the civilians to evacuate. So don't think that I believe Isreal is squeaky clean in all this mess. My biggest fear is that there will be a cease fire. A UN (Mostly US) force will go into keep the peace. An American soldier will end up shooting the wrong person and the picture will be all over Al Jazzer and no one will remember for a second that they wanted the US to step in to stop the bombing. Then there will be banners and buring flags saying, "US go home". Murders, etc. Of course, I don't think we will see any German troops. Even though they support Isreal, can you imagine the propaganda if a German soldier shoot a jewish person. Talk about WWIII!
I am with you; we don't want any foreign forces involved in peacekeeping. That would be a prescription for a disaster. I hope we have learned a thing or two from Iraq so the latter is not an exercise in futility.
The Lebanese Army is very weak and it will be very challenging to try to arm them. Who's going to do it and how? Again we don't want another Iraqi military fiasco like the one we dismantled then realized that rebuilding it was much more dangerous.
I propose a cease fire on all sides and a historical meeting to take place to negotiate. I think every party will be happy to do this, including Israel because I don't believe for a minute that its people are war mongers like the leadership. We need to isolate Iran and Hezbollah. Syria must be part of this meeting, and I am sure that a promise to return the Golan Heights can be an incentive.
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post #134 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 04:00 PM
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I am with you; we don't want any foreign forces involved in peacekeeping. That would be a prescription for a disaster. I hope we have learned a thing or two from Iraq so the latter is not an exercise of futility.
The Lebanese Army is very weak and it will be very challenging to try to arm them. Who's going to do it and how? Again we don't want another Iraqi military fiasco like the one we dismantled then realized that rebuilding it was much more dangerous.
I propose a cease fire on all sides and a historical meeting to take place to negotiate. I think every party will be happy to do this, including Israel because I don't believe for a minute that its people are war mongers like the leadership. We need to isolate Iran and Hezbollah. Syria must be part of this meeting, and I am sure that a promise to return the Golan Heights can be an incentive.
Man, put the bong down and join the real world.

Israel cannot not negotiate with Hez because that would undermine Lebanon's claim of sovereignty, essentially recognizing a separate Hez state.

Syria would be destitute without Iranian support. They dare not confront Iran. Worse, by choosing a peaceful road, the dictatorship would fall as that dictatorship depends politically on an external enemy for survival.

The most likely path for an sort of peace will be for a strong Lebanese democracy to suppress the violent tendancies of Iran's client thugs, Hebollah. Lebanon has finally successfully driven a tenuous political wedge between Syria and Hezbollah in the psyche of the 80% of Lebanon that are NOT Shia.

The best thing that Israel could do after severely thrashing Hez would be too apologize to the government and people of Lebanon and offer reparations to the non-Shia factions. That would enhance the power of the central government and clearly demark for Lebanon that the Israeli beef is not with lebanon but with the Hez and it's supporters.

Also, have France and Spain and Belgium send peacekeeping troops into the contested areas and disarm the remnants of Hez. Then transition to a Muslim force. In the meantime, France continues aiding the Lebanese army and building them into a truly national army capable of defeating Hez AND ALL OTHER TRIBAL FACTIONS. From that capability a unified Lebanon could survive.
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post #135 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 04:07 PM
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Man, put the bong down and join the real world.
Jealous.

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post #136 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Man, put the bong down and join the real world.

Israel cannot not negotiate with Hez because that would undermine Lebanon's claim of sovereignty, essentially recognizing a separate Hez state.

Syria would be destitute without Iranian support. They dare not confront Iran. Worse, by choosing a peaceful road, the dictatorship would fall as that dictatorship depends politically on an external enemy for survival.

The most likely path for an sort of peace will be for a strong Lebanese democracy to suppress the violent tendancies of Iran's client thugs, Hebollah. Lebanon has finally successfully driven a tenuous political wedge between Syria and Hezbollah in the psyche of the 80% of Lebanon that are NOT Shia.

The best thing that Israel could do after severely thrashing Hez would be too apologize to the government and people of Lebanon and offer reparations to the non-Shia factions. That would enhance the power of the central government and clearly demark for Lebanon that the Israeli beef is not with lebanon but with the Hez and it's supporters.

Also, have France and Spain and Belgium send peacekeeping troops into the contested areas and disarm the remnants of Hez. Then transition to a Muslim force. In the meantime, France continues aiding the Lebanese army and building them into a truly national army capable of defeating Hez AND ALL OTHER TRIBAL FACTIONS. From that capability a unified Lebanon could survive.
Did you even read what I wrote earlier? These negotiations will shunt Hezbollah and Iran all together. Besides there was no claim for a separate Hezbollah state, I think you need to go easy on the "hashish" because you seem to like to make a point by pulling and stretching things in a dramatic way.
Syria does not need Iran to enter into a peace treaty with Israel. You have been reading too much into the relationship between Syria and Iran.
The best thing for Israel to do is to shut up and not favor one sect for another, we all know what happened in southern Lebanon when Israel ruled by dividing the population. I remember Sabra and Shatila, do you?
Lebanon can regain autonomy without the help of France or anyone. What they need is a real opportunity to do it not a stabbing in the back like what happened right now.
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post #137 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 05:28 PM
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I found a picture of the shooter...

Last edited by Gregs300CD; 01-08-2007 at 04:22 PM.
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post #138 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 05:30 PM
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I found a picture of the shooter...
The joo'z MURDERERD Jesuz....



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post #139 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Jealous.
Well okay, I guess I am.

Crap.

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post #140 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-01-2006, 06:52 PM
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Shiites are 20% of the population. Hezbollah is something like 5% of the Shiite population. They have the most powerful and cohesive military and political faction in Lebanon. They are armed by iran through Syria and financed by Iran, which is by anybody's estimation, an interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign state by foreign states. The people and army of Lebanon are strongly divided along sectarian and tribal lines. France has been working with Lebanon's national army for a bit less than a year working on low-level unit cohesion and engagement. The plan is to build cohesion up through the ranks from training to command. That takes attrition, through retirement and assignment, of soldiers who hold sectarian and tribal allegiances. That takes time.

While this has been going on, Syria and Hez have been working on ways to increase the power of Hez in Lebanon, with Iran's patient backing.

A key question, given these circumstances, is why did the Hezbollah risk provoking Israel at this time? What could they possibly expect to gain? Hezbollah has brought terrible ruin upon it's most important internal source of support. Hezbollah has launched thousands of ineffective rocket attacks and done next to nothing important other than that. Hezbollah claims victory when they are able to momentarily slow the Israeli advances on the ground. Hezbollah, even after all this misery and death, still has only the most tepid support among the Arab nations. Even Syria is only mildly saber rattling and they should be Hez' ally. Obviously Syria wants NOTHING to do with a war with Israel. The message of the Israeli jets over Damascus was received.

IMO, the answer does not lie within Lebanon. The answer is not Syria. I think the answer is Iran. Why would Iran provoke Hez into a confrontation that nobody wanted and without a clear objective?

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