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post #131 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by GMISBEST.
Why are you people ganging up on my buddy bonehead? He speaks the truth but you can't accept that can you?
I back him up 100%, let's purge that place and start from scratch with new rules as dictated by us.
They just hate it when I speak the truth. Particularly when its stuff the DNC (and their flunkies in the liberal press) preffers to keep from their brainwashed followers.

Like the fact we have recently declassified government reports detailing 500+ weapons of Mass destruction found in Iraq dateing back to 2002. That Democrats who had seen and were privey to that report had been telling bold faced lies arguing WMD were never found.


http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...classified.pdf

here is a PDF copy of the actual document. Not some reporters interpetation of it.

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post #132 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Hello Silver Arrow. I'm pleased and relieved that you have come through this latest war in good health and apparently good spirits. You have been on a peculiar carnival ride these recent years with the murder of your popular PM, ouster of Syrian forces, a new, bolder democratically elected government and now this latest war. And wars never go according to anybody's plan so there is no telling what will happen.

I am surprised how patient the non-Hizbollah Lebanese seem to be during this time. I think it is a short-term good and a long-term bad thing. In the short term it restricts violence to a duel between Hizbollah and Israel (except for accidents, which in war are always horrible). This should put other Lebanese factions in a stronger position vis a vis Hizbollah when hostilities cease.

It maybe a long-term bad thing for Lebanon in that it further fractures the sectarian chasms that have historically prevented a unified army and government. Until Lebanese can think nationally there will not be a unified Lebanon. I'm not blaming the non-Hizbollah Lebanese. The responsibility is squarely on Hizbollah for trying to drag all of Lebanon into yet another protracted period of violence. But the particulars of this instance are not important in the long term. In the long term it is just another reason for the factions to distrust each other.

What do you think?

Bot
Thanks Bot. I’m trying to stay positive in all this, and try to live a normal life as much as possible. I go to work on a daily basis, but instead of going out, I’m staying home watching DVDs or heading to the gym.

I think it’s essential at this time for us Lebanese to stay united amid all this. Like the PM said, now is not the time to say who’s right and who’s wrong. We have to stay united, and when all this is over, then will be the time to hold people responsible. People have a lot of suppressed anger inside, but they can’t unleash anything until they see an end to the killing. It’s hard to come up and say to a person being killed and tell him that he’s responsible.

But what worries me is that if a deal to end all this is reached without involving Syria, then Syria will try sabotage it in a way or another.

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post #133 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 08:31 AM
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Silver Arrow, sad fact is Syria along with Iran is who started this Using their puppets Hesbolah to do their bidding....they are still upset they are not being allowed to openly run Lebonan.

Having them involded in any way is exactly what they want....Until Hesbolah is dealt with once and for all, and Syria is kept out of it, then its going to be a viscious cycle and this is all going to happen all over again.

Syrian is a dictatorship...Iran is effectively a dictatorship pretending to be a democracy, Both support terrorism, and find enough stupid people to be their puppets. And those people insist on CAUSING trouble.

Deal with the terrorists, get rid of them and this will end.

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post #134 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 79-300SD
Silver Arrow, sad fact is Syria along with Iran is who started this Using their puppets Hesbolah to do their bidding....they are still upset they are not being allowed to openly run Lebonan.

Having them involded in any way is exactly what they want....Until Hesbolah is dealt with once and for all, and Syria is kept out of it, then its going to be a viscious cycle and this is all going to happen all over again.

Syrian is a dictatorship...Iran is effectively a dictatorship pretending to be a democracy, Both support terrorism, and find enough stupid people to be their puppets. And those people insist on CAUSING trouble.

Deal with the terrorists, get rid of them and this will end.
I agree with most of what you said.
The Syrian Regime was furious when it was forced to leave Lebanon last year. They have trying to get involved again ever since. We call it here throwing someone from the door; he tries to come in through the back window.

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post #135 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
If the past is any predictor of the future, then a cease-fire will protect Hizbollah as they re-arm and re-group, then in a few years Israel will go through this shit for another iteration of death and misery for everybody over there. I hope Israel degrades Hizbollah so much that they are combat ineffective against the (presumed) EU "Peacekeepers".

This would give the Lenabese army some breathing room to get itself trained into a cohesive, unified army instead of a bunch of tribally segragated battalions run by committees.

If I ran things I'd start with a EU-only fully-armed fighting force and gradually replace it with Paks and Morroccans. Then Lebanese when tehy are capable.

B
That sounds accurate. Any ceasefire will allow Hezbollah to start rearming unless there is strong enough pressure on Syria to not allow it to happen. That is where the "smart" has to come in on the negotiations. After that, I think your plan would work very well. EU to an Arab Buffer then to Lebanon. There also has to be an element that works with Gaza to insure it does to flair back sooner and that Israel does not over react to "random acts" which are going to happen.

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post #136 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 79-300SD
They just hate it when I speak the truth. Particularly when its stuff the DNC (and their flunkies in the liberal press) preffers to keep from their brainwashed followers.

Like the fact we have recently declassified government reports detailing 500+ weapons of Mass destruction found in Iraq dateing back to 2002. That Democrats who had seen and were privey to that report had been telling bold faced lies arguing WMD were never found.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...classified.pdf

here is a PDF copy of the actual document. Not some reporters interpetation of it.
First, you might want to do a search on OT and find the rather long thread on this startling discovery that you posted June 22. Then after reviewing that, you will note three things.

First, Google “Santorum” to find out its true [and very funny] meaning

Second, The subject was dropped like a hot potato after it hit the light of day because it had NO SUBSTANCE. This was proven by the Senate Armed Services Committee [Republican chaired]

Third, Eyewitnesses accounts from the Army Chem teams based at the Bluegrass Army Depot who found dumps.

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post #137 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
First, you might want to do a search on OT and find the rather long thread on this startling discovery that you posted June 22. Then after reviewing that, you will note three things.

First, Google “Santorum” to find out its true [and very funny] meaning

Second, The subject was dropped like a hot potato after it hit the light of day because it had NO SUBSTANCE. This was proven by the Senate Armed Services Committee [Republican chaired]

Third, Eyewitnesses accounts from the Army Chem teams based at the Bluegrass Army Depot who found dumps.
No the left decided it conflicts with the lies they were pushing ....after all , the entire democratic party except for Joe Lieberman have been in a fantasyland for years. Why would they start accepting reality now.

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post #138 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SILVER ARROW
Thanks Bot. I’m trying to stay positive in all this, and try to live a normal life as much as possible. I go to work on a daily basis, but instead of going out, I’m staying home watching DVDs or heading to the gym.

I think it’s essential at this time for us Lebanese to stay united amid all this. Like the PM said, now is not the time to say who’s right and who’s wrong. We have to stay united, and when all this is over, then will be the time to hold people responsible. People have a lot of suppressed anger inside, but they can’t unleash anything until they see an end to the killing. It’s hard to come up and say to a person being killed and tell him that he’s responsible.

But what worries me is that if a deal to end all this is reached without involving Syria, then Syria will try sabotage it in a way or another.
If you don't mind me asking, what particular sect do you belong to? I read an articel today that claimed that many of the Lebanese refugees arriving in Cyprus carry portraits of the Hizbollah leader with them, and many do not refer to Hizbollah as "Hizbollah" but as a term that translates to "The National Resistance". The gist of the piece was that the average Lebanese see the Hizbollah as national heros due to their successful ouster of Israel from Lebanon in the 90's.
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post #139 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
That sounds accurate. Any ceasefire will allow Hezbollah to start rearming unless there is strong enough pressure on Syria to not allow it to happen. That is where the "smart" has to come in on the negotiations. After that, I think your plan would work very well. EU to an Arab Buffer then to Lebanon. There also has to be an element that works with Gaza to insure it does to flair back sooner and that Israel does not over react to "random acts" which are going to happen.
The Israelis will never accept an "Arab Buffer", nor should they, because the troops would be rife with Muslim nutcases who would allow or particpate in attacks. The existence of Israel is a religious, not a political issue to many Muslims, Arab or not. Google "Dar al-Islam" to find out why. Hizbollah will not allow non-Muslim troops. Everyone in this discussion seems to forget that Hizbollah already defeated one UN force, killing hundreds of US Marines and French foreign legionairres, and essentially kicked the Israelis out once before. They are a classic guerilla forece, with much support among the local population, which means only a massive occupation will end their bloddy work. Haven't we found this out in Iraq?
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post #140 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DriveByPoster
The Israelis will never accept an "Arab Buffer", nor should they, because the troops would be rife with Muslim nutcases who would allow or particpate in attacks. The existence of Israel is a religious, not a political issue to many Muslims, Arab or not. Google "Dar al-Islam" to find out why. Hizbollah will not allow non-Muslim troops. Everyone in this discussion seems to forget that Hizbollah already defeated one UN force, killing hundreds of US Marines and French foreign legionairres, and essentially kicked the Israelis out once before. They are a classic guerilla forece, with much support among the local population, which means only a massive occupation will end their bloddy work. Haven't we found this out in Iraq?
Facts are not entirely on your side in your assessment.

First: All Muslims are NOT the same.

Israel knows that from experience--it has good relations with Jordan and improving relations with Egypt, both countries share relatively peaceful borders with Israel. A Muslim army taht is not hostile to Israel nor a combatant in any of the wars with Israel (say, Turkey, Morrocco, Tunisia, UAE, KSA, etc) would probably pass muster with the Israeli gov. I don't think Israel would accept a Shiite force.

The greater problem of acceptance would not come from Israel, it would come from Hizbollah. That group is a cat's paw of Iran through Syria. Hizbollah would have to be severely weakened in order to be forced to accept a Sunni army running its turf.

B
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