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post #101 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
I see
So you are talking a UN involvment after the EU because it is a Muslim thing after all.
No, I meant exactly as I said. I didn't say UN. As things stand now, Israel will not accept a UN force. The UN has proven ineffective at preventing Hizollah from incursions into Israel.

First, Hizbollah must be severely degraded as a fighting force. Then some form of international peacekeepers. The peacekeeper's rules of must include low-level decisions for engaging, not some fool bureaucratic committee in Strasbourg (which is why most people think NATO should run it, not the EU). This gives Israel more assurance than another blue-helmeted bunch of nothing. The peacekeeping should transition from Europeans to Arabs or at least Muslims. The transition to Arab forces NOT DIRECTLY ENGAGED WITH ISRAEL would give confidence to Lebanon and Hizbollah but would not be in Hizbollah's pocket. Concomitantly, the Europeans work closely with the Lebanese army (which France is already doing). The 3rd step would be a unified Lebanese Army replacing the Arab peacekeepers.

You heard it here first.
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post #102 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
I think that (the Turks in) Turkey's greatest fear is uniting of an independent kurdistan in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. All three of those countries have been fearful of kurdish independence since Saladdin kicked all their asses. And the Christians, too.

The oilfields were ripe for the taking, if Turkey could get away with the gambit. If the coalition had winked and turned away, then Turkey would have been more than happy to deprive Kurdistan of its only significant source of revenue. Depriving the kurds of oil would make suppressing the formation of a Kurdistan nation an easier job. Now the Turks in Turkey will either have to continue the discriminatory and oppressed status of Turkish Kurds or they are going to have to recognize Kurds as a federated state of some sort within Turkey's national sphere of influence.

B
Wow that sounds like the Pals and the Israelis, I see some parallel here don't you?
Since Israel has full US support to do "what it's got to do" why not Turkey? Besides like I said earlier the US has bases in Turkey, so how come not in Israel? Who's our real partner in the Middle East here? Or maybe it is a religious partnership that we are looking for not some down to earth strategic one. Please tell me what makes Israel a better partner than say Turkey hell even Saudi or Egypt? The bottom line is what's our interest in the Middle East? oil, religion, trade?
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post #103 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
No, I meant exactly as I said. I didn't say UN. As things stand now, Israel will not accept a UN force. The UN has proven ineffective at preventing Hizollah from incursions into Israel.

First, Hizbollah must be severely degraded as a fighting force. Then some form of international peacekeepers. The peacekeeper's rules of must include low-level decisions for engaging, not some fool bureaucratic committee in Strasbourg (which is why most people think NATO should run it, not the EU). This gives Israel more assurance than another blue-helmeted bunch of nothing. The peacekeeping should transition from Europeans to Arabs or at least Muslims. The transition to Arab forces NOT DIRECTLY ENGAGED WITH ISRAEL would give confidence to Lebanon and Hizbollah but would not be in Hizbollah's pocket. Concomitantly, the Europeans work closely with the Lebanese army (which France is already doing). The 3rd step would be a unified Lebanese Army replacing the Arab peacekeepers.

You heard it here first.
Is Morocco or Pakistan part of EU? How are you going to squeeze that?
How about looking for solutions where Lebanon is fully sovereign?
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post #104 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 04:33 PM
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Mr. Professor, delete the first sentence. Otherwise, I will revoke your professorship.

Mi$ter Right.
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post #105 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 04:38 PM
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Safe Haven?

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Originally Posted by SILVER ARROW
To my knowledge, the greater Beirut was and still is in the "safe" heaven since the beginning of all this. And what I mean by greater Beirut, is excluding the southern suburb. I have 8 American neighbors in my building; they were informed the same thing by the US embassy in Beirut. I hope it stays this way.
Attention!
Your Internet Session is about to expire. If you want to remain connected, beg Israel for Mercy.

Mi$ter Right.
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post #106 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 04:41 PM
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Mr. Professor, delete the first sentence. Otherwise, I will revoke your professorship.
Hey, at least the guy scored with Mary Ann.

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post #107 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Wow that sounds like the Pals and the Israelis, I see some parallel here don't you?
Since Israel has full US support to do "what it's got to do" why not Turkey? Besides like I said earlier the US has bases in Turkey, so how come not in Israel? Who's our real partner in the Middle East here? Or maybe it is a religious partnership that we are looking for not some down to earth strategic one. Please tell me what makes Israel a better partner than say Turkey hell even Saudi or Egypt? The bottom line is what's our interest in the Middle East? oil, religion, trade?
Turkey might be okay but I understand lots of folks in the Levant still harbor resentment towards them as the successors of the much-hated Ottomans. I wouldn't think it a problem.

Consider this: Why not an army from Kosovo? They're decidedly European yet adamantly Muslim. They are also fully trained on soviet-style weapons and tactics and are learning western weapons and tactics. They sure as heck understand insurrections, too.
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post #108 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 05:01 PM
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Is Morocco or Pakistan part of EU? How are you going to squeeze that?
How about looking for solutions where Lebanon is fully sovereign?
the whole point of bringing Morocco and Pakistan into the area (or Tunisia, for that matter) is that they are NOT EU. They are a transitory force that builds confidence within the local community as the Lebanese Army comes up to speed, which ultimately is what is absolutely necessary if Lebanon is EVER going to be fully sovereign and fully independent and fully in control of it's fractious people.
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post #109 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 05:11 PM
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And...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
the whole point of bringing Morocco and Pakistan into the area (or Tunisia, for that matter) is that they are NOT EU. They are a transitory force that builds confidence within the local community as the Lebanese Army comes up to speed, which ultimately is what is absolutely necessary if Lebanon is EVER going to be fully sovereign and fully independent and fully in control of it's fractious people.
...Equally important is a new Lebanese Constitution that does away with assigning government posts by a quota system, based on religious affiliation.

Mi$ter Right.
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post #110 of 240 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Wow that sounds like the Pals and the Israelis, I see some parallel here don't you?
Since Israel has full US support to do "what it's got to do" why not Turkey? Besides like I said earlier the US has bases in Turkey, so how come not in Israel? Who's our real partner in the Middle East here? Or maybe it is a religious partnership that we are looking for not some down to earth strategic one. Please tell me what makes Israel a better partner than say Turkey hell even Saudi or Egypt? The bottom line is what's our interest in the Middle East? oil, religion, trade?
Just look at the insanity of all of it. In Iraqi, almost 3,000 of our finest men and women died so that Iraq could have a government made up of Shiite Militias. In Lebanon, we decry Hezbo'llah, the Shiite militia of one of the ruling parties. Get it ? In Lebanon, Shiite militias supported by Iran, bad; in Iraq, Shiite militias supported by Iran - good. Got that Winston?

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