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post #241 of 244 (permalink) Old 07-27-2006, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Try to use a 3mm ratchet on a guy who is raping your wife. Some of us live in much more violent places than tranquil Washertown.
not sure how to take this... if a threat to life exists, it doesn't matter where one
lives (I opine). the available response should be to stop the threat. why should
tranquil Washingtonians be offered a more passive defense tool vs East LA?
if the value of life is the most precious thing we own, should not our defense
be similar wherever we live? yeah, that's just some Utopia thing, isn't it?

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post #242 of 244 (permalink) Old 07-27-2006, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by raymond-
i agree to a point, Z....but unconvinced that firearms should then not be a viable tool.
when threat to life conditions exist you use a threat to life response. if a disparity of
force exists you need a proven tool to eliminate the threat. you dont meet
knife with knife. you cant suggest using a 2x4 if the attacker has a baseball
bat. e.g. if group of youths approached you, 5 to 1, with screwdrivers and
began to slash, should my weapon of response be a screwdriver....or should
I have the tool necessary to protect my life against these odds?

once a situation has been identified as immediate threat to life, my best and
only option is to repel the taking life....if one has made such an
moral and ethical commitment.

loss of property does not cross this threshold. a retreating threat does not
trigger a shooting response.

this is why I mentioned way back that I think training is a prerequisite. not only
should one possess the ability to shoot, but also the ability to discern when it
is....or is not appropriate.

I'm not suggesting that taking a life may not be situationally necessary. And, let me reiterate for all to see, I also personally own a gun. My problem is with the 2nd Amendment fetishists who continually trot out the nonsensical notion that guns make us safer; that's simply not the case. Are we, or are we not statistically more likely to be shot in our homes if we already have guns there...hmmm? The answer is clear. Ok then, is it not true that guns are used in defensive (or offensive) situations where they're not required...hmmm? If I were being attacked (unlikely) with a gun (highly unlikely), then yes, I would prefer to "defend" myself with a weapon of equal effectiveness. Or, I might be able to simply ride it out passively, ceding safely to the gun-toters remunerative demands and seek redress through the criminal justice system; or I might simply remove the gun via a high kick to the solar plexus; or the gun might be a dud; or he/she might have a massive heart attack; or they might trip and fall, accidentally discharging the weapon into their chest; or what I thought was a gun, was actually a little stick; or aliens in a hovering craft may magnetically compel all ferrous metal weapons to their waiting recepticle; or my menacing glare convinces the would-be bad guy to move on to a more likely victim; or my flatulence overcomes the bastards in their tracks; or I just say boo! What-if scenarios are fun fun phun!
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post #243 of 244 (permalink) Old 07-28-2006, 12:00 AM
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ah gets your drift (except the flatulance), tnx

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post #244 of 244 (permalink) Old 07-28-2006, 12:17 AM
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An extract from the above link. 16 DEMOCRATS voted against the bill which would have PREVENTED the seizure of privately owned firearms during natural disasters.

"Incredibly," he continued, "sixteen extremist anti-gun Democrats, led by Hillary Clinton, demonstrated by their vote that they think it's just swell for the government to seize private property from law-abiding citizens, often times at gunpoint and always without warrant or due process of law. This time, it's guns but what about next time? If it is okay with these senators for police to take legally-owned firearms without probable cause, what would they advocate next for confiscation?"

By a vote of 322 to 99, the house passed a similar bill. It sure will be interesting to see who the 99 are - how many democrats and how many republicans.

Since all no votes in the senate version of the bill were democrats, why do I get the feeling that at least 95 percent or more of those who voted NO are democrats?
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