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Old 07-11-2008, 05:38 AM   #1801 (permalink)
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The Stark was very heavily damaged. It was lucky to have stayed afloat. And its hull and equipment were designed and tested to be able to survive missile hits within limits - depending on a competent, trained crew to minimize damage quickly. I am not an expert on the Stark's hull design, but most US warships are also compartmentalized. That does little good when the keel is broken and the propulsion plant shuts down.

I somehow doubt the structural integrity of the typical oil tanker has been tested for resistance to missile attacks and I doubt the crews get the same level of firefighting and damage control training that US Navy crews get. The tankers may be compartmentalized, but a blown out compartment and a raging fire, and, well, the potential for fire to spread to other compartments, and there is one hell of a probability that those compartments will be lying neatly next to each other at the bottom in a day or so.

And then their are LNG tankers. While not likely to instantly explode, a rupture and a fire is a formula for a really big problem. LNG has some peculiar characteristics, so the fire burns for a longer time and is not necessarily an explosion. But then, no one has actually lit off a whole tanker full to my knowledge.

So, I wouldn't bet a beer with a guy I didn't already feel like buying a beer that a single missile won't sink a tanker. Depends on where it hits, but in all likelihood there are fewer locations that wouldn't sink the ship than would. But my next question is, why would you only suspect those launching the missile to stop with one hit?

Jim
All US warships since WWII have been heavily compartmentalized.

Didn't say a single shot couldn't or wouldn't sink a tanker. Said it was unlikely and even if successful, it would be very, very slow. The cargo is buoyant.

The shooters don't need to sink a ship to halt traffic. Just put a big hole in a couple of them. Insurance rates would make shipping impossible until the military situation resolved.

Unless the Iranians were nucking futs, they wouldn't want to sink anything because their own national livelihood is shipping-dependent. They would want to raise tensions sufficiently to get their way, not to start a war they know they would receive the worst of to no benefit.

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Old 07-11-2008, 05:44 AM   #1802 (permalink)
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And only one of the exocets that hit Stark actually exploded.
The Exocet that hit the Sheffield didn't explode. It is easy to incapacitate a small, lightly armored vessel. In the Sheffield's case the missile hit the worst place possible. Lucky it didn't explode, too. Had the Sheffield been underway in open sea she probably would have faired better.

The Starke was extraordinarily lucky. But luck is part of war, too. It has to factored into the equation.

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Old 07-12-2008, 10:05 AM   #1803 (permalink)
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Back on topic for this thread ....
Bot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarkozy welcomes Assad in Paris
BBC

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has welcomed his Syrian counterpart, Bashar Assad, to the Elysee Palace. The meeting marks a return to the world stage for the Syrian president, after France accused Damascus of involvement in ex-Lebanese PM Rafiq Hariri's death. The talks are already producing results, with Mr Sarkozy saying Syria and Lebanon had agreed to open embassies in each others' capitals.

Diplomatic ties between the two nations ceased after Hariri's killing in 2005. In a joint statement issued after the meeting, Mr Assad also said he wanted France and the US to contribute to peace efforts between Syria and Israel.
But, according to Reuters news agency, Mr Sarkozy added that conditions were not yet right for direct Syria-Israel talks.

Mr Sarkozy also said he would visit Syria for talks before mid-September.
'Boost'
The French president will later host a meeting between Mr Assad and Lebanon's newly-elected president, Michel Suleiman, a day after the formation of a new unity government in Beirut.

The Paris visit is a big boost for Mr Assad, helping Syria to break out of its diplomatic isolation, says BBC world affairs correspondent Nick Childs.
But critics say Mr Assad's reception in Paris is too much of a reward, when there are still serious question marks over human rights in Syria and its alleged role in the killing of Hariri. Earlier on Saturday, Mr Sarkozy held talks with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who will be a key player in the French leader's plan for a union of Mediterranean states, our correspondent adds.

Mr Sarkozy is hosting a summit on Sunday to launch this union, which will be attended by 43 leaders of countries in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. Only Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is expected to boycott it. According to our correspondent, critics are dismissing the new union as lacking substance, but French officials say it comes at a significant moment.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:27 AM   #1804 (permalink)
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:39 AM   #1805 (permalink)
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Lebanese President Wants Diplomatic Ties With Syria

Associated Press

PARIS -- Lebanon's new president said Saturday he wants to establish diplomatic ties with Syria and exchange ambassadors, calling for a major shift in long-hostile relations between the neighbors.

Michel Suleiman spoke before talks in Paris with his Syrian counterpart, Bashar Assad -- and on the eve of a rare summit among leaders of 43 nations from Europe and the Mediterranean rim that France says could send a "wind of hope" through the region.

"We want an exchange of ambassadors and diplomatic relations with Syria," Suleiman told reporters at the French presidential palace. He said he was "satisfied" with relations ...
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:52 AM   #1806 (permalink)
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Jeezus, it's like dialogging is breaking out all over the world n' shit. S'up wit dat?
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:19 AM   #1807 (permalink)
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Jeezus, it's like dialogging is breaking out all over the world n' shit. S'up wit dat?
Nuthin' like having your neighbor blow-up your clandestine nuke facility, then have the whole world watch your attempts to cover it up on Google Earth to get your attention.

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Old 07-12-2008, 11:35 AM   #1808 (permalink)
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Nuthin' like having your neighbor blow-up your clandestine nuke facility, then have the whole world watch your attempts to cover it up on Google Earth to get your attention.

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Isn't it amazing what a big bomb can do to improve relations? It is the only language terrorists understand...
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:58 AM   #1809 (permalink)
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oh puhleeze
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:00 PM   #1810 (permalink)
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The Syrians just want to get along ... now.

Glad they got the message.

Same one Mr Khadaffi got and Mr Bad-Hair got.

Too bad Mr Hussein didn't pay attention, huh?

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