Bush accused of breaking the law by his own party.Will they have the guts to impeach? - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I respect you, really, but you honestly must get a refresher course in civics under your belt. You can't possibly credit a budget surplus or shortfall to the sitting President...that's not the way it works.
You need to look at who presents the budget to Congress each year for approval. It goes through changes but the initial Budget is the design of the Executive. Yes, I did pay attention in Civics. And Economics.

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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
You need to look at who presents the budget to Congress each year for approval. It goes through changes but the initial Budget is the design of the Executive. Yes, I did pay attention in Civics. And Economics.
Mac - it's not even solely the design of the President. For what seems like the fifteenth time, it's not JUST the President...it's not JUST Congress. You can't blame the budgetary issues on the President any more than you can blame them on Congress. It takes participation from lots of entities for this square dance to happen. I'm running out of analogies, sorry!
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 06:18 PM
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I could be mistaken, but unless you're very young, there hasn't been a Democratically controlled congress in quite some time. Surely you're not implying that Clinton was a conservative and that Bush is a liberal......or that either controls the fiscal reins of the country on their own....again, a refresher course in how the federal government works seems in order.
It is very well established that Clinton was a Fiscal Conservative which allowed him to design budgets that took Bush1 deficits and over time [95-2001] actually ran in SURPLUS.

When Bush2 came aboard, his first budget started a downward spiral that continues today. He has run up over TWO TRILLION in total Deficit budgets. Now 9/11 and the introduction of DHS adds 200B and IRAQ/A'stan add 750B so that still means that with all the War on Terror he has still spent over a $Trillion more than brought in.

Now to add to that mix. The National DEBT is over NINE TRILLION DOLLARS. And the just released Trade Deficit numbers are out and this is going to be another Record Year with a Trade Deficit of $760BILLION. Last year was only $736BILLION. Big guess as to where the other two of the top four Trade Deficit years fall? This is what Economists call either a Fiscal Liberal or a Fiscal Idiot. And remember, he has control of ALL the purse strings.

EDIT: Fiscal IDIOT is intended to strongly voice my fear that the economy is facing a very bad crisis and really is not intended to put that name on Bush even though I do feel his policies are mostly responsible. There are other outside forces but none as strong as the power that a smart WH / Congress could wield if it wanted to in order to start fixing it.

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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 06:30 PM
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For example, each office proposes a budget and writes a narrative and each sends a it upstream where at each level, the carefully crafted pages of justifications get pared to a paragraph each and then to the department secretary where each paragraph gets pared to a single bullet. They take all of the justifications and send it to OMB (Old Mean Bastards) who collect the bullets into a smaller number of bullets and write a paragraph for each reformed (and re-budgeted) submission. Then they send it to the House, which has also been listening to constituencies and fellow Congressmen and senators and special interest groups. Their staffers argue with the OMB staffers over which bullets get funded and which ones don't. House staffers from both parties (yes Virginia, they do work on budgetary legislation together) then write the legislation to suit their masters and placate OMB. They confer with the Senate (but are jealous of the House's budgetary prerogatives so they don't spend a great deal of staff time listening to the Senate). Then the House Committees modify and pass out of committee the various bits which are then voted on by the House and sent to the Senate, which has it's own wish list that they wish most especially, that the House would pay more attention to. They negotiate among themselves by caucuses and committe and then send a marked-up bill back to the House. The House whines petulantly and complains that the senate has over-reached and then goes into conference committees over the legislation with the Senate and House leadership, in which the staffers do the work and the Congressman fuss in front of TV's like they do something important for a living. Occasionally they will send OMB some info or request OMB input.

Eventually legislation is extruded from this process and sent to the president for his signature. Then the money is poured back down the rat-hole to the low-lifes way down the food chain who have to make sense of the legislation by resolving their budget requests with the cryptic pronouncements of their lords and masters.

That's how it worked in every administration since Thomas Jefferson. Washington tried a more imperial approach and was severely pissed at how his input was greeted by the squabbling plebians on the hill.

Any resemblance to Civics is an accident of poor management.
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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 06:36 PM
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For example, each office proposes a budget and writes a narrative and each sends a it upstream where at each level, the carefully crafted pages of justifications get pared to a paragraph each and then to the department secretary where each paragraph gets pared to a single bullet. They take all of the justifications and send it to OMB (Old Mean Bastards) who collect the bullets into a smaller number of bullets and write a paragraph for each reformed (and re-budgeted) submission. Then they send it to the House, which has also been listening to constituencies and fellow Congressmen and senators and special interest groups. Their staffers argue with the OMB staffers over which bullets get funded and which ones don't. House staffers from both parties (yes Virginia, they do work on budgetary legislation together) then write the legislation to suit their masters and placate OMB. They confer with the Senate (but are jealous of the House's budgetary prerogatives so they don't spend a great deal of staff time listening to the Senate). Then the House Committees modify and pass out of committee the various bits which are then voted on by the House and sent to the Senate, which has it's own wish list that they wish most especially, that the House would pay more attention to. They negotiate among themselves by caucuses and committe and then send a marked-up bill back to the House. The House whines petulantly and complains that the senate has over-reached and then goes into conference committees over the legislation with the Senate and House leadership, in which the staffers do the work and the Congressman fuss in front of TV's like they do something important for a living. Occasionally they will send OMB some info or request OMB input.

Eventually legislation is extruded from this process and sent to the president for his signature. Then the money is poured back down the rat-hole to the low-lifes way down the food chain who have to make sense of the legislation by resolving their budget requests with the cryptic pronouncements of their lords and masters.

That's how it worked in every administration since Thomas Jefferson. Washington tried a more imperial approach and was severely pissed at how his input was greeted by the squabbling plebians on the hill.

Any resemblance to Civics is an accident of poor management.
That covers the congressional side completely except for the arguing over what was a bullet and what was a pizza stain.

Now substitute Department for District and there is the Executive side. Somewhere along the way a temp runs to Kinkos and collates the two together and Congress argues and votes on the document that they did not build and the Pres signs the doc he did not submit. Yep, B got it right.

McBear,
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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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