GOP run propaganda machine initiates massive disinformation campaign against America - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2006, 03:31 PM
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I guess NPR, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, The NYT, LAT, Hollywood and Pop Music just can't compete with a single cable channel and AM radio.

Wow. I guess everyone is an idiot except for you and Michael Moore? Or is he a dittohead? Al Franken too neo-con for you?

Arrogance and condescension are hallmarks of the left. Fortunately ignorance is as well. It keeps folks with your beliefs out of power.
Typical rightwing canned response. Note the following: Straw man, Michael Moore. Straw man, Al Franken. Straw men, the bunch of other media. Not addressed: the issue, which is whether or not we are being subjected to government sponsored propaganda from a huge media machine that has no interest in the truth, only an interest in keeping the exisiting government in power, ala Pravda. And as far as ignorance goes, aren't you the "Werewolf" guy?
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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2006, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
I guess NPR, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, The NYT, LAT, Hollywood and Pop Music just can't compete with a single cable channel and AM radio.

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Originally Posted by old300D
And somehow the word gets out, and you slaver over the party line. Who's the ignorant one?

No shit.
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2006, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
I guess NPR, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, The NYT, LAT, Hollywood and Pop Music just can't compete with a single cable channel and AM radio.

Wow. I guess everyone is an idiot except for you and Michael Moore? Or is he a dittohead? Al Franken too neo-con for you?

Arrogance and condescension are hallmarks of the left. Fortunately ignorance is as well. It keeps folks with your beliefs out of power.
Did you get a cookie with your Kool aid? You must have had a good long pull because, after reading the article, seeing most of that coverage on Fox and reading [a bunch of] and knowing [a little of] the background and watching/reading the followup after June 21 that article looked pretty much dead on. Your only answer is to call names? That is just weak. You could use facts, sorry don't have any, do you. Must be bad. Now about that power thing. Have you ever heard of a pendulum?

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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Hey, we're still waiting on him to show us proof that German Werewolves conducted a bombing campaign at the end of WWII that he claimed killed thousands, just like the Iraqi Insurgents. Why would you expect some right winger who spreads disinformation to have an intelligent response on a thread about right wingers spreading disinformation?
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 08:17 AM
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Blame Santorum and Hoekstra for taking a tiny sliver of information and going ape-shit over it. Blame Fox News if you will, for taking the story and running with it. It won't be the first time a news agency has taken bad information and made a terrific but preventable mistake in handling it. Anyone remember Dan Rather & CBS news?

If you are anti-war, you'll always find excuses for why we shouldn't have invaded Iraq. If you're pro-war, many of these arguments will fall on deaf ears. It doesn't really matter.

I believe that there was probably not enough information available to make the kind of case "for war" that democrats in particular would have wanted to see. That said, there's no question that Saddam was a violent, lying, dangerous figurehead who needed to go. It's not like he was a perfect angel - there was plenty of reason for us to topple him on our own, no matter how bad it would have looked, because we (the USA) were the ones who had planes fly into two very large buildings where thousands of people died. We're a little sensitive to countries that have the wherewithall to make that happen again, so sue us.

Leaders aren't bad leaders because they make bad decisions (and I'm not talking about Bush; there's plenty of blame to go around with regard to the intelligence on which the go-to-war decision was made) - leaders are 'bad leaders' because they make no decisions. In light of 9/11/01, I for one am certainly glad that it was George W. and not Al Gore in the oval office. At that first baseball game post 9/11, Rosie O'Donnell was crying and cheering him on for chrissake.

We've been in Afghanistan and Iraq for a very long time - the number of coalition and civilian casualties is REMARKABLY low given the circumstances. The failure in execution was post-war...that's certainly fair game. Let's not continue to belabor arguments regarding whether or not we should have gone to war - the time for those discussions to remain relevant has long passed, and it disrespects the sacrifices that the men & women in our military have made.
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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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"Preventable mistake"?????? These guys work hand and glove. The whole thing was planned. As far as Gore vs Bush - Bush has been a disaster as president. Could Gore have done any worse? My feeling is he would have stayed the hell out of Iraq, an enormous blunder on Bush's part.
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 10:04 AM
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Leaders aren't bad leaders because they make bad decisions...
Actually, leaders are bad leaders precisely because they make bad decisions... Good leaders make good decisions and bad leaders make bad decisions. Your preference for a proven failure over an unknown sounds like a bad decision to me, but what do I know...

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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 12:23 PM
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"Preventable mistake"?????? These guys work hand and glove. The whole thing was planned. As far as Gore vs Bush - Bush has been a disaster as president. Could Gore have done any worse? My feeling is he would have stayed the hell out of Iraq, an enormous blunder on Bush's part.
Carter was a disaster. Gore lost, so we will never know. Bush has yet to be judged by history. Many presidents were unpopular during their term(s) in office. Time has proven out their decisions to be good or bad. Thank goodness that men like Washington, Lincoln, & Roosevelt didn't listen to the rantings and ravings of idiots who opposed every step of their presidency.

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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Actually, leaders are bad leaders precisely because they make bad decisions... Good leaders make good decisions and bad leaders make bad decisions. Your preference for a proven failure over an unknown sounds like a bad decision to me, but what do I know...
With all due respect, I'd bet that if you selected your "top 5" best living leaders, each of them would acknowledge that they didn't always make the best decisions...they simply make the decision they feel to be right, given the information they have on hand. Sometimes the decision is "get more information"...sometimes the decision is "make such-and-such happen". The point is they were decisive - they didn't let a situation or ambiguity hold them back. They don't suffer from "paralysis by analysis". At some point, leaders realize that enough is enough and something has to be done...it's at this point that they chart the course for others to follow, rather than retreat to their quarters to think about it some more or listen to any & every opinion around.

Good leaders aren't afraid to make decisions - period. I hope you don't assume that anyone sets out to purposely make a mistake - if that's the case, then there's no talking to you.

If a given decision turns out to be a bad one, they acknowledge it, change whatever is necessary/possible, and move on. People look to leaders for guidance - when they get none, the result is uncertainty. This leads to everyone doing what they feel is right - an extremely counterproductive situation, as everyone has different requirements and objectives.

I know there's more to Al Gore than what we saw during debates, etc., but I've no question that he is absent of the internal fiber that allows one to confidently make a decision in trying circumstances on short timeframes. After 9/11, I remember thinking how glad I was that "W" was the President, as Gore would likely have been on the air apologizing to Al Qaeda for whatever it was they think we did. This may not be fair, but having just watched the campaigns, it's what I had taken away about him as a person.

Some people still don't realize what a remarkable president Ronald Regan was - it's obviously far too early for either Bush to be heralded or lambasted for their accomplishments.
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
With all due respect, I'd bet that if you selected your "top 5" best living leaders, each of them would acknowledge that they didn't always make the best decisions...they simply make the decision they feel to be right, given the information they have on hand. Sometimes the decision is "get more information"...sometimes the decision is "make such-and-such happen". The point is they were decisive - they didn't let a situation or ambiguity hold them back. They don't suffer from "paralysis by analysis". At some point, leaders realize that enough is enough and something has to be done...it's at this point that they chart the course for others to follow, rather than retreat to their quarters to think about it some more or listen to any & every opinion around.

Good leaders aren't afraid to make decisions - period. I hope you don't assume that anyone sets out to purposely make a mistake - if that's the case, then there's no talking to you.

If a given decision turns out to be a bad one, they acknowledge it, change whatever is necessary/possible, and move on. People look to leaders for guidance - when they get none, the result is uncertainty. This leads to everyone doing what they feel is right - an extremely counterproductive situation, as everyone has different requirements and objectives.
We are essentially in agreement sir. Unfortunately, your assessment in no way applies to Mr. Bush, who was determined to invade Iraq before the 9/11 attack, and shamefully used a national tragedy as a launching pad for his administration's personal agenda. Also, GW is famous for not acknowledging mistakes, you know, like nominating his cleaning lady to the Supreme Court.

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