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post #31 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jillian80
I don't think that's what GS was saying at all, Bot. I think he was saying how crazy it is to attack Iraq under the pretense of stopping terrorism when Iraq wasn't a hotbed of terrorist activity. I think you would be hard pressed to find many who would disagree with attacking Afghanistan. The ringleader (OBL) of the 9/11 attack was in Afghanistan. The terrorist training camps were there. How many training camps were in Iraq before we attacked? How many are in Iraq now, I wonder?

I know you've said terrorism or WMD weren't reasons you were behind the invasion of Iraq. I think your reasoning had more to do with gaining a foothold in the ME (or something along those lines--I can't really remember now), but that's not what the American public was told. We were told that invading Iraq made sense because we would fight the terrorists there and not here. GS makes the point that the terrorists behind 9/11 were here, not Iraq. They were in Florida, in flight schools. No one said anything about attacking Florida, though--you're really reaching with that one.
I took GS' words and their meaning and extrapolated one possible interpretation. You provide another. I suspect that GS has his own interpretation.

You misunderstood everything I said concerning my support of invading, decapitating, and reforming Iraq. For me, it is strictly about oil. Having an expansionist, murderous dictator follow-through on his oft-stated plan to control 3/4 of the planetary oil supply was not my favorite foreign policy direction. You see, industrial agriculture and transportation are directly dependent on oil. We simply cannot feed 6 billion people on this planet without industrial agriculture and without modern transportation. We can feed about 3 billion on pre-industrial agriculture and transportation. That leaves about 3 billion people to starve to death.

Saddam had demonstrated that he didn't give a shit for human life but he dearly loved having control over it. By controlling 3/4 of the oil supply, he would have controlled the lives of all inhabitants of the terrestrial ball. For he who can destroy a thing, controls that thing.

Concerning elected officials, I don't much give a damn what they say but I do care about what they do. In this instance I agreed with the tactical goal for my own strategic ends.

It's like getting on a bus. I don't really give a damn what the bus driver tells me about his motivations for getting somewhere. I see where the bus is going and get on it if it is going where I want to go.

Bot

Last edited by Botnst; 06-11-2006 at 09:06 AM.
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post #32 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
I'll bet Saddam wishes he would have listened. It sure got the attention of other terrorist nations like Lybia, didn't it?
I hate to ask this in the middle of such a busy discussion but:

Where the Hell is Lybia?

Are you thinking with the little head again CHawk?

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post #33 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 09:28 AM
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Old hillbillies and hippies should be seen and not heard. “NEOCLUELESS” is not a word and putting it in all caps just makes you look stupid, not me. It is my humble opinion that you wouldn’t know a patriot if s/he bit you in the ass. The President of the United States is not “simple minded,” and has NOT destroyed “America's reputation around the World,” as you contend. To the contrary, he has been rock solid in pursuit of our beliefs that the United States stands for democracy and freedom around the world. Everyone now knows what we stand for, and although they may not always agree w/ us, they know that we mean what we say—and are willing to back it up w/ American lives if necessary. We scare the hell out of our enemies and impress the hell out of those who want to be free. I’m afraid it is you who have no clue, my friend.
That's Ret Maj. Hillbilly and Hippy, thank you very much. I paid my dues to know what a patriot is and to be one every single day, not just with little clipart and a W sticker on my car. Look at editorials in every single country that we have always called our friends and see what they have to say. England, Germany, Japan, Spain, Canada, Mexico. None appear impressed with our actions. Appalled would be a better word. And since Bush is changing his mind to 'work the polls' this 'we mean what we say' holds little water.

As for scaring the Hell out of our enemies, neither N. Korea nor Iran seem to have blinked so far, and in fact have made us move our position from 'will not negotiate' to 'OK let's negotiate' on both fronts.

And I like the juxtaposition of your No Clue and W clipart. I could not have done it better myself.

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post #34 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
As for scaring the Hell out of our enemies, neither N. Korea nor Iran seem to have blinked so far, and in fact have made us move our position from 'will not negotiate' to 'OK let's negotiate' on both fronts.
Speaking of Iran and nukes, I watched the documentary of the Israeli raid on Iraq's nuclear reactor in '81 on the military channel last night. That scenario bears a striking resemblance to the situation in Iran today. Maybe " haunting resemblance " would be a better phrase to use. Anyway, just wanted to get your take on the comparison.
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post #35 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
I hate to ask this in the middle of such a busy discussion but:

Where the Hell is Lybia?
They flank each side of a womans public mound. You really aren't that bright are you?

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post #36 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Was it Iraq or America that harbored and trained the terrorists who pulled off the 9/11 attack? What does that say? More and more, I'm convinced that you couldn't possibly believe your own posts. I am gaining an appreciation for your sense of humor, though...
Good point--but I would hardly call it "harboring" the terrorists. They "flew in" under our radar, which is exactly why we need the Patriot Act! So that it doesn't happen again, or at least is a lot less likely to.

I do post w/ a little tongue-slightly-in-cheek, and, on occasion, overstate a bit for emphasis, but when it comes to terrorists I am deadly serious.

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post #37 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcbear
That's Ret Maj. Hillbilly and Hippy, thank you very much. I paid my dues to know what a patriot is and to be one every single day, not just with little clipart and a W sticker on my car. Look at editorials in every single country that we have always called our friends and see what they have to say. England, Germany, Japan, Spain, Canada, Mexico. None appear impressed with our actions. Appalled would be a better word. And since Bush is changing his mind to 'work the polls' this 'we mean what we say' holds little water.

As for scaring the Hell out of our enemies, neither N. Korea nor Iran seem to have blinked so far, and in fact have made us move our position from 'will not negotiate' to 'OK let's negotiate' on both fronts.

And I like the juxtaposition of your No Clue and W clipart. I could not have done it better myself.
Sorry 'bout that Ret. Maj. Hillbilly/Hippy. I'm sure you are a patriot too. I just think you worry too much about what other people think of us. Iran and N. Korea are coming around, as is the U.S., and I think you will be surprised w/ their turn-around over time. They know we are serious, and will do whatever is needed to help protect and defend budding democracies and spread freedom. At least that is my hope.
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post #38 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ThrillKill
They flank each side of a womans public mound. You really aren't that bright are you?
I knew, I was just wondering why Saddam should have learned lessons from them, other than his two half wit sons.

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post #39 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 10:13 AM
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The only reason I care what other countries think is that when we need to deal with something big, we need their help. If we have lost credibility then we have a harder time getting their support and have to make more under the table deals to get it. All that additional baggage just costs more in the long run and takes decades to rebuild the lost credibility.

As far as going after terrorists, one of the main gateways into the country right now is Mexico. We have caught people from the Middle East coming through for the past decade. It is only now [four years past Patriot Act] that we are starting to knit shut that border. That could have been done earlier but too many people on both sides want the Latino and/or business vote and don't seem to care that more than Latino come through that direction. Same thing for the Canadian border.

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post #40 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-11-2006, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Caring about what other nations think is fine, but we cannot afford to let them--or the liberal left--set our foreign policy.
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