Tax Relief for All Americans - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:36 PM
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I think some folks are confusing DEFICIT and DEBT again.

DEFICIT is the negative difference between how much money the government brings in and how much it spends

DEBT is the accumulation of the deficits.

FY 2006 the DEFICIT is projected to be around 300 BILLION DOLLARS

The accumulated DEBT that the US TREASURY owes to everybody who owns bonds, treasury notes, and other Treasury Loan items is around 8.5 TRILLION DOLLARS and growing at a rate of 2 BILLION DOLLARS per DAY. That is due to both continued DEFICIT SPENDING and INTEREST.

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post #72 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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You're right -- I was definitely talking "debt".

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #73 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:51 PM
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The liberal lament: "Pay and be happy. You get the most from the system so you have the greatest interest in maintaining it as it is. Jim"

What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't believe everything you think

Last edited by Jayhawk; 05-20-2006 at 05:57 PM.
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post #74 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 06:01 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Most Americans WILL benefit from any tax relief, just as we all have from the previous round of tax cuts. Our roaring economy didn’t happen by accident and the 5 million+ new jobs created in the last couple of years didn’t magically appear. They are the direct result of reducing everyone’s taxes, no matter how much they make. And “people who don't work” will NOT be left out—they will be much more likely to find jobs, if they are willing to work. You can make fun of how little relief individual tax payer’s will get, but when you multiply all of those “small,” individual tax breaks by the 150,000,000+ people who paid taxes, it ain’t no small potatoes! It makes our economy go and puts millions more to work!!

"Yes"... Don't know about you rich folks complaining about it, but that "only" 13 or $1400.00 will be a very nice addition to our kids college fund.
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post #75 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk
The liberal lament: "Pay and be happy. You get the most from the system so you have the greatest interest in maintaining it as it is. Jim"

What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What exactly do you find unbelievable? I know you would rather let all those "lazy cretins" die of starvation or the knife/gun or other wounds they inflict on each other, but what makes you think they would do that willingly? And, do you suggest you are less a beneficiary of the bounty of the system? So, like I said, pay up and be glad you aren't a victim of some "lazy savage's" street justice, and acknowledge you have it better than most. Jim
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post #76 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 07:33 PM
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"Yes"... Don't know about you rich folks complaining about it, but that "only" 13 or $1400.00 will be a very nice addition to our kids college fund.
True, the extra $100 per month is nice. Just remember that you are paying higher overall taxes because part of your Federal Income Tax will be going to pay down the Federal Debt for the next lifetime. If, on the other hand, you did not get the tax refund, and Congress exercised similar discipline on other pork spending, your aggregate tax bill could go down much more in the long run due to a reduction in Federal debt and its resultant interest. So, you get a bit now or a bit more later.

I don't know about the rest of the folks on the board but I don't count as one of the rich folk. I did get to retire at 50 and have started a great avocation of auto restoration and restomodding but it was earned as my dad was a butcher and my granddad was a coal miner. So when I learned economics and business management, I had the great perspective of having seen it from both sides of the tracks, from dirt to the top.

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post #77 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
True, the extra $100 per month is nice. Just remember that you are paying higher overall taxes because part of your Federal Income Tax will be going to pay down the Federal Debt for the next lifetime....
Excellent point easily addressed by cutting spending.

B
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post #78 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 07:57 PM
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Excellent point easily addressed by cutting spending.

B

"Yes"

My wife and I are both from the most humble of origins, everything we have was earned through determination, education (MBA for myself, PhD for the Wife), and sound economic judgement.

We never purchase a thing (our S430 included) unless we can purchase it in cash. We save at least 30% of our income, and we often laugh because we live so much more simply than our peers, who appear to have both unlimited wants and unlimited means (as opposed to the old Macro Econ description).

I don't mind paying our share in taxes (we do and then some), but I want to see them spent wisely - which won't happen - under ANY administration. Just like our neighbors and co-workers, the Govt has both unlimited wants and an unlimited appetite for revenues derived from the earnings of its citizens.

Like our neighbors, both appear to be on the road to ruin, our neighbors will destroy their lives, and the Government will destroy the country...

That's why I will appreciate any relief I get, because I believe that we as individuals must be prepared to provide for ourselves, because within 2 decades, the Govt will be unable to help anyone except in a negative manner.
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post #79 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RBs
"Yes"

My wife and I are both from the most humble of origins, everything we have was earned through determination, education (MBA for myself, PhD for the Wife), and sound economic judgement.

We never purchase a thing (our S430 included) unless we can purchase it in cash. We save at least 30% of our income, and we often laugh because we live so much more simply than our peers, who appear to have both unlimited wants and unlimited means (as opposed to the old Macro Econ description).

I don't mind paying our share in taxes (we do and then some), but I want to see them spent wisely - which won't happen - under ANY administration. Just like our neighbors and co-workers, the Govt has both unlimited wants and an unlimited appetite for revenues derived from the earnings of its citizens.

Like our neighbors, both appear to be on the road to ruin, our neighbors will destroy their lives, and the Government will destroy the country...

That's why I will appreciate any relief I get, because I believe that we as individuals must be prepared to provide for ourselves, because within 2 decades, the Govt will be unable to help anyone except in a negative manner.
That is the best financial plan I have seen on this board. My father always said to assume that Social Security would be broke and any pension would be raided and to plan accordingly. After seven years of school with two masters, that is still the best advise I ever got.

Folks ask why I drive older Benzos and restore them. I point to my 4 cars and tell them that, with restoration I have less money in those four cars than they have in their single SUV. And mine are all paid for. My wife and I also went with the plan that we would buy a house based on ONE income, not combined which drove the RE agent nuts. They kept telling us we qualified for an $850,000 house and were perplexed when we bought a nice $120,000 in an older neighborhood. With layoffs and now the increase of variable mortgages, most of our friends are starting to get nervous as they are over mortgaged on cars, credit cards and houses.

For some reason this is starting to feel like October of 1987 again but I can't explain it clearly as to why.

McBear,
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post #80 of 169 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 08:09 AM
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I don't believe that the stock market itself is necesarily oversold (it is to an extent), I think that the birds have finally returned home to roost for the U.S. Monetary System itself. We have inflated our money supply to the point that the Dollar is basically worthless, if it were not for the fact the world needs a common currency, we would have experienced Argentina style inflation long ago (they were pegged to the Dollar). Case in point, the Fed is abolishing the M3 definition of total money and near money supply. Why? They claim it's just too hard to track. My belief? The last thing the Fed wants us to know is the true extent of its monetary inflation. Worthless currency = inflation, something the Fed wants in a controlled form to pay off old debts with inflated Dollars. But, can they keep it in control? Hah!

The Fed must also keep the interest rates for U.S. Treasuries high enough to ensure that foreign investors will keep buying them and thus continue financing our spending habit (read lifestyle). If we cannot attract these investors, our way of life collapses - overnight. The rest of the world (mostly Asia) is getting very leery of this. With 8 Trillion in U.S. Treasuries in their vaults, central banks could bring down the U.S. economy just by selling (note: central banks last month were net SELLERS of T-Bills - very ominous) The requirement for higher interest rates than the rest of the world will come at the expense of the domestic economy (already seen with record foreclosure rates and personal bankruptcies climbing back to pre "reform" levels) and they will continue to climb as the rest of the global economy recovers. Central banks are starting to get VERY concerned about our policies and do not want to be left holding the bag. They will only hold our debt for so long. What does this mean? When they finally refuse to buy our debt, the U.S. Govt will no longer have the revenue necesary to finance our spending spree, even if they raise taxes to the roofs (everyones), there will not be enough. All of our precious "entitlements" will go out the door and the people who depend upon them (everyone) will go down as well.

Finally, the U.S. population is aging and the BB generation is headed for semi-retirement. They (we) will live a long time and they will be selling off their securities, equities, and other financial instruments in an ever increasing flood to finance their retirement. With the low savings rates and lack of discretionary income in even our "afluent" sectors of population, there will not be enough demand to absorb all of this. The rest of the world??? Forget it. They will not want to buy into a slow motion train wreck. Result? A crash in the markets and impoverished BBoomers.

All of these factors: Worthless currency, high inflation, high interest rates, and a market flooded with unwanted stocks will combine to equal a disaster far worse than 1987, it will be closer to 1929. Is this a simplistic explanation? Yes. It would take 400 pages to cover the subject. Am I sticking to my argument? Yes. I intend to have no debt, a goodly amount of easily convertable securities denominated in various foreign currencies, gold (as an anti-inflation hedge), and all of the long term capital goods needed to see us through. Our savings will continue, but I have little hope for the future of the current U.S. Dollar. I think that it will be replaced with a less inflated version within 20 years (just as in Argentina). Better to have "things" that will INCREASE in value as time goes along, not possessions such as cars, furniture, and clothing that are worth less just by walking out of the store. Buy real estate, precious metals, and foreign currency to reinforce your portfolio. I live by the motto "If we have everything we need and some of what we want, we're doing very well" You can't have "everything" and you will only ruin yourself if you try.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

Last edited by RBs; 05-21-2006 at 09:05 AM.
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