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post #61 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 05:50 PM
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And how about the ones who go into those poverty stricken areas to try to make a difference? Those who follow a passion rather than dollar signs?

Healthcare is a basic human need that we have a moral obligation to provide.
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post #62 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GMISBEST.
How about the sinoritas, Flamengo and torrero? Count your blessings Spain is great
lol, and tapitas.... (beer+meat or hamb or fish), the problem is with the job... other way i can live good here....
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post #63 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Free? I doubt it. What you mean is that you do not pay for it directly.

Somebody somewhere is paying, I suspect in taxes, right?
FREE.... a lot of OLDER ENGLAND, cames to live here this way the healt is free and must not to pay, a lot od Sudamericans (Colombia,Ecuador, and more) when cames here, and need to go to hospital, not pay....
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post #64 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 06:30 PM
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Anyone who believes putting heathcare in the hands of government, any government, will produce better results is seriously delusional. Hell, lots of people bitch about the hassle of HMO's. Yowzer, just wait until the government gets involved. This could be one of the biggest social clusterfucks yet!

Do a little research on national healthcare plans and you'll find that most are transitioning to privatized care. A lot of them are now charging user fees.
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post #65 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Boo!
Anyone who believes putting heathcare in the hands of government, any government, will produce better results is seriously delusional. Hell, lots of people bitch about the hassle of HMO's. Yowzer, just wait until the government gets involved. This could be one of the biggest social clusterfucks yet!

Do a little research on national healthcare plans and you'll find that most are transitioning to privatized care. A lot of them are now charging user fees.
The key is that there has to be some kind of a system. I do believe a private system CAN work better, and should work better. My only concerns revolve around the HMO dance that many have to go through to get any kind of care. The hard part is going to be building the initial system to where it can be implemented within a reasonable amount of time considering the amount of disparate infrastructure that will have to be bridged.

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post #66 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 07:17 PM
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The key is that there has to be some kind of a system. I do believe a private system CAN work better, and should work better. My only concerns revolve around the HMO dance that many have to go through to get any kind of care. The hard part is going to be building the initial system to where it can be implemented within a reasonable amount of time considering the amount of disparate infrastructure that will have to be bridged.
To a large degree, our system is already a mish-mash of government and private funding. Obviously, medicare is a part of it, but there is an extraordinarily large amount of federal money being spent on clinical research. Money well spent, IMO. Not only for the U.S., but for the world. Unfortunately, the working relationship between government and private industry has almost always been a strained one. Heck, maybe abused is a better word to describe it. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the government implementing and maintaining a system. I do know that for the amount of money we're spending, the results should be much better. A familiar refrain these days.
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post #67 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Boo!
To a large degree, our system is already a mish-mash of government and private funding. Obviously, medicare is a part of it, but there is an extraordinarily large amount of federal money being spent on clinical research. Money well spent, IMO. Not only for the U.S., but for the world. Unfortunately, the working relationship between government and private industry has almost always been a strained one. Heck, maybe abused is a better word to describe it. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the government implementing and maintaining a system. I do know that for the amount of money we're spending, the results should be much better. A familiar refrain these days.
YES

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post #68 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-03-2006, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Have you ever actually been to a poverty stricken area and worked with people who have tried busting their ass.....
Yes.

I lived in Cartegena, CO from age 5-8. I lived in great luxury, unlike our servants.

After my service to the USN (in which I traveled to many 3rd world counties), I worked in the oil industry for several years including surveying in South America. Later while in grad school I made several research trips to MX, Belize, several other central Am countries, and Peru. In my current job I have volunteered on occasion to help with various disasters and have helped people learn basic human sanitation skills. I've dug outhouses by hand (NOT supervised) in the Dominican Republic and helped folks in Haiti with AIDS issues. Last year I worked S&R in NOLA following Katrina and in SW Louisiana following Rita. I know what a rotting human being smells like.

In my own life I have been unemployed and broke. I lost everything I owned when the oil industry went bust in the 1980's and had to pay the debts and Mrs B and I pull ourselves out. I have caught chickens, worked in a rendering plant, carried seismic sensors through swamps, cut survey line with a machete and kiaser blade. I have been a hot walker and janitor. I worked as weekend house parent for severely retarded folks in a shelter.

So yeah, I've seen various layers of society in lots of different countries. Folks in the USA that think they are poor haven't a clue what poverty is.

Last edited by Botnst; 06-03-2006 at 05:50 PM.
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post #69 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-03-2006, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Yes.

I lived in Cartegena, CO from age 5-8. I lived in great luxury, unlike our servants.

After my service to the USN (in which I traveled to many 3rd world counties), I worked in the oil industry for several years including surveying in South America. Later while in grad school I made several research trips to MX, Belize, several other central Am countries, and Peru. In my current job I have volunteered on occasion to help with various disasters and have helped people learn basic human sanitation skills. I've dug outhouses by hand (NOT supervised) in the Dominican Republic and helped folks in Haiti with AIDS issues. Last year I worked S&R in NOLA following Katrina and in SW Louisiana following Rita. I know what a rotting human being smells like.

In my own life I have been unemployed and broke. I lost everything I owned when the oil industry went bust in the 1980's and had to pay the debts and Mrs B and I pull ourselves out. I have caught chickens, worked in a rendering plant, carried seismic sensors through swamps, cut survey line with a machete and kiaser blade. I have been a hot walker and janitor. I worked as weekend house parent for severely retarded folks in a shelter.

So yeah, I've seen various layers of society in lots of different countries. Folks in the USA that think they are poor haven't a clue what poverty is.
post #70 of 96 (permalink) Old 06-03-2006, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Yes.

I lived in Cartegena, CO from age 5-8. I lived in great luxury, unlike our servants.

After my service to the USN (in which I traveled to many 3rd world counties), I worked in the oil industry for several years including surveying in South America. Later while in grad school I made several research trips to MX, Belize, several other central Am countries, and Peru. In my current job I have volunteered on occasion to help with various disasters and have helped people learn basic human sanitation skills. I've dug outhouses by hand (NOT supervised) in the Dominican Republic and helped folks in Haiti with AIDS issues. Last year I worked S&R in NOLA following Katrina and in SW Louisiana following Rita. I know what a rotting human being smells like.

In my own life I have been unemployed and broke. I lost everything I owned when the oil industry went bust in the 1980's and had to pay the debts and Mrs B and I pull ourselves out. I have caught chickens, worked in a rendering plant, carried seismic sensors through swamps, cut survey line with a machete and kiaser blade. I have been a hot walker and janitor. I worked as weekend house parent for severely retarded folks in a shelter.

So yeah, I've seen various layers of society in lots of different countries. Folks in the USA that think they are poor haven't a clue what poverty is.
I thought I had remembered earlier posts where you had dug out during the oil bust of the 80's. I asked the question because you kept making sweeping statements as if all folks in the US that are poor or on welfare think alike and somehow all have decided to work the system in a concerted effort to 'beat the man'. That is what surprised me. And with the post above, everything makes sense until the last sentence when you broad stroke everyone again.

Alot of those very save poverty stricken, out of work, clueless folk were down in NOLA with you putting in weeks and even months at a time since they had no work at home. All for free. Their church paid for their food and they stayed either in tents or on a church floor. You might have seen me in my white GMC truck with them part of the time with the SNAFU1 sign on the back. In 04 the same group was in Mexico helping and in 03 it was Central America. There is an 45 person mission that goes to one or two disasters every year depending on who is out of work. That is one of the reasons I get so defensive of these folk when they are called lazy and clueless and that they don't have their priorities straight.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.

Last edited by mcbear; 06-03-2006 at 06:16 PM.
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