Gestapo: Bush fascists attempting to monitor every phone call made in the USA - Page 9 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #81 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Teutone
Nothing to do with communication, but the current medicare drug plans. The present Goverment had a unique opportunity to negotiate with the Pharma Industry and bring down drug costs to the same level as found in Canada. They never even tried. Do you call that being competent, and representing the best interest of the people? Teutone (aka Horst K)
No, I call it being criminal. Bribes were paid to the GOP by Big Pharma. The whole thing is an utter disgrace, such an obvious rip-off of the taxpayer it is pathetic. Everyone involved in passing it ought to be indicted.
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post #82 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 11:56 PM
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Well, as I said before. Most politicians are dishonest. If you find an honest one, buy him right away. Where does lobbyism end, and bribery start, or when will people realize, that they are one and the same. Teutone (aka Horst K) P.S. Are you aware that former German Chancellor Schroeder is now heading the Russian State Oil Co. Rosneft. This Co. only became valuable after it aquired the core business of former giant Yukos, at a forced Goverment auction of Yukos assets. Rosneft does rhyme with theft. This has to rank as the most overt act of corruption after WW2. Teutone (aka Horst K)
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post #83 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
From an outside your inner vision perspective, your activities are not consistent with your claims. That is also often one of the points when you enter the fray - it is not just trying to get you to join the Bush bashing, but to explain your inconsistency....
That's EXACTLY what I described, above. Your perception is your own.

Because I don't follow the herd into a religious fervor of mindless hatred, I must love Mr Bush.

Nope.

I am very pleased Bush invaded Afghanistan and deposed that regime.

I am very pleased that Bush invaded Iraq, but not for ANY of the reasons Bush stated.

Unlike folks who apparently smoke banana peels rather than think (including Rumsfeld and co), I NEVER expected an easy victory and simple withdrawal. I completely agreed with Powell's assessment, that we would be there in a killing zone for years, maybe more than a decade. I think his prognostication proved accurate.

I agree with practically nothing this administration has done on domestic policy. They only thing he has going for him is that his policy, as screwed-up and short-sighted as it is, is still head and shoulders above the knucklehead socialist wannabees, the Democrats.

Do I hate Bush? No. Do I hate Kerry? No. I wish them both well. Long life and prosper. Hate is wasted effort that skews the mind into unproductive paths.

Hope that clears it up for you.
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post #84 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
That's EXACTLY what I described, above. Your perception is your own.

Because I don't follow the herd into a religious fervor of mindless hatred, I must love Mr Bush.

Nope.

I am very pleased Bush invaded Afghanistan and deposed that regime.

I am very pleased that Bush invaded Iraq, but not for ANY of the reasons Bush stated.

Unlike folks who apparently smoke banana peels rather than think (including Rumsfeld and co), I NEVER expected an easy victory and simple withdrawal. I completely agreed with Powell's assessment, that we would be there in a killing zone for years, maybe more than a decade. I think his prognostication proved accurate.

I agree with practically nothing this administration has done on domestic policy. They only thing he has going for him is that his policy, as screwed-up and short-sighted as it is, is still head and shoulders above the knucklehead socialist wannabees, the Democrats.

Do I hate Bush? No. Do I hate Kerry? No. I wish them both well. Long life and prosper. Hate is wasted effort that skews the mind into unproductive paths.

Hope that clears it up for you.
And, as I have noted many times, I don't hate Bush either. I don't know him as person. I expect he would be a good guy to shoot the breeze with in a bar about all kinds of stuff. But, like most people hanging around in bars shooting the breeze with random strangers who happen in, he is not suited to be the President of the United States. So, once he is gone and resumes his rightful seat at the end of the bar near Crawford, Tx, I won't waste another thought on him.

So, you don't have to actually hate Bush to point out how destructive he is for the country. Jim
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post #85 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
And, as I have noted many times, I don't hate Bush either. I don't know him as person. I expect he would be a good guy to shoot the breeze with in a bar about all kinds of stuff. But, like most people hanging around in bars shooting the breeze with random strangers who happen in, he is not suited to be the President of the United States. So, once he is gone and resumes his rightful seat at the end of the bar near Crawford, Tx, I won't waste another thought on him.

So, you don't have to actually hate Bush to point out how destructive he is for the country. Jim
I don't give a flip whether he gives money to orphanages and loves flowers. I don't care whether he pulls wings off flies and kicks puppies. Like I said above, the only things that I support him on are the twin invasions and decapitations of governments. The rest of his governance is indistinguishable from the Democrats. Thus, the reason I voted 3rd party.

But not everything that I disagree with that he has done is totally bad. Some things have some beneficial effects, but I don't think they outweigh the detrimental effects.

Oh wait, I also like the tax cuts. Forgot them.

B
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post #86 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 11:12 PM
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just another reason why i dont like "amis"

and how i feel too........

whenever i go out of my beach apartment here, the gestapo assholes are always waiting right there to pull u over, and harass, and spread fear....

yes, i am honestly scared of them........

i only feel safe again each time when im back on German soil, where such treatment is ILLEGAL nowadays............
post #87 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-16-2006, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by AMSOIL300CDT
just another reason why i dont like "amis"

and how i feel too........

whenever i go out of my beach apartment here, the gestapo assholes are always waiting right there to pull u over, and harass, and spread fear....

yes, i am honestly scared of them........

i only feel safe again each time when im back on German soil, where such treatment is ILLEGAL nowadays............
Golly gee, why not stay where you feel safe and abandon the awful daily ugliness and fear?
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post #88 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-16-2006, 04:08 PM
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Europeans Embrace Stepped-Up Surveillance
May 16 1:13 PM US/Eastern
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By JOHN LEICESTER
Associated Press Writer

PARIS

Europeans are no strangers to eavesdropping: East Germans endured the all-pervasive Stasi secret police, a French president had a penchant for wiretaps and Britain had "Camillagate" _ with Prince Charles taped making a steamy call to his lover.

Perhaps little wonder, then, that many Europeans barely shrug at news that the Bush administration has collected telephone records on millions of Americans.

Although experts and officials say Europe does not centrally collect telephone data on a massive scale, government surveillance has been increasing since the Sept. 11 attacks. Some say European nations could further boost surveillance if terrorism becomes an even bigger threat.

"If we had a Sept. 11 every year, then citizens, regardless of the country, would doubtless be ready to abdicate a good portion of their rights in this area," said French lawmaker Alain Marsaud, a former anti-terror investigator.

Marsaud, other experts and European Union officials said they were not aware of a European equivalent of the secret telephone database put together by the National Security Agency. The program was disclosed last week by USA Today newspaper, which said the NSA has records of all calls made by customers of AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth since shortly after Sept. 11, 2001.

"German legislation does not allow for this," said Andreas Middel of Germany's Deutsche Telekom, Europe's largest phone operator. While the company does _ with a court order _ turn over to law enforcement agencies data such as numbers called and the length of calls, it does not provide billing information for more general purposes, he said.

Jan Sjoberg of TeliaSonera, the Nordic region's largest telecommunications operator, said: "There is nothing today that indicates that this kind of thing is going on, either in Sweden or elsewhere in Europe."

The Bush administration has declined to specify how the data is being used; President Bush reiterated Tuesday the government was not eavesdropping on Americans.

Sandra Bell, who spent two decades working on counterterrorism technology for Britain's Ministry of Defense, said she suspects the NSA is building a detailed picture of what constitutes normal phone traffic. That way, spikes in calls to places like Afghanistan or Pakistan, for example, could be easier to spot, perhaps flagging terrorist activity, she said.

Bell likened it to a bank's ability to track credit card use, enabling them to follow up any unusual purchase to ask if a card had been stolen.

"Technology is going at such a pace ... we have to give up a little bit of privacy in order to provide security," said Bell, who now works for a British security think tank.

"If they are doing what I think they are doing, then I guess my answer is: 'Why on earth wasn't this done a long time ago?'" Bell said. "If it is something more sinister then, no, I wouldn't like it."

The pendulum swung toward more extensive electronic surveillance in Europe after deadly transit bombings in Madrid and London.

EU governments and the EU parliament this year approved legislation requiring telecommunications companies to retain phone data and Internet logs for a minimum of six months for possible use in terrorism and serious crime investigations.

The Dutch secret service has gained vast powers. In 2004, the government passed measures that lowered the threshold for bugging and surveillance. A turning point in Dutch public attitudes came with the 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a Muslim extremist.

France also has expanded the possible use of videosurveillance and phone and Internet data, despite previous wiretapping abuses. President Francois Mitterrand eavesdropped in the 1980s on lawyers, politicians, journalists and celebrities. A Paris court last November convicted seven people of invasion of privacy for their role in the operation.

In Italy, a Justice Ministry report said the number of authorized wiretaps more than tripled from 32,000 in 2001 to 106,000 last year. Italian phone companies are obliged to keep phone records for at least five years and Internet records for at least one year _ the longest of any of the EU's 25 member nations, according to Italy's privacy authority.

That is not a problem for Carolina Lio, a university student from Bologna. "As long as there isn't a CCTV camera in my house, I am not worried," she said. "I know the surveillance is not directed against me, but rather to protect me."

But others warn the delicate balance between security and freedom is being lost.

"Politicians have tapped into this mood of fear," said British expert Ian Leigh.

"A lot of the safeguards that were erected, first of all in the U.S. in the 1970s, and then in other countries in the '80s and '90s following well-documented abuses have been taken down to some degree to fight the war on terror," he said. "It's likely that this will store up problems for the future."

___
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post #89 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-16-2006, 04:12 PM
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We just need to leave these delicate matters in the capable hands of the Ministry of Peace...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #90 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-16-2006, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregs300CD
Of course the administration is mixed up with Big Pharma...

Anybody remember what did Bush Senior do between his time at the CIA and VP?
Is Bush sr still president?
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