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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
I was aghast when I first heard about the minutemen and their mission, but I have to admit that they've handled themselves extremely well in Arizona, and have definitely been an asset to our state. There have been no armed conflicts and complete cooperation with the border patrol. Some of them do sound a bit nutty when interviewed, but most seem to have their eye on the ball...
As a general rule, encouraging vigilantism rather than official LE is a long-term loser.

But I understand their frustration. The two parties have colluded for decades over this issue and citizens are getting pissed-off. And it isn't a strictly party-line thing, though both parties are busy trying to dance on the precipice without going too far.

The danger is that a really clever politician could get ahead of this issue, mix it with Islamic terrorism, and have a perfect political storm of demagoguery.

Imagine if somebody like Huey Long got into it, for example.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 06:21 PM
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you do or you don't?
Do or don't what?
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 06:40 PM
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have a problem with shrub narcing on the minutedudes to the mexicans.. it just seems like that's just wrong and endagering his own citizens (US). the fucking border needs to be sealed. NOW!



in political asylum
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
As a general rule, encouraging vigilantism rather than official LE is a long-term loser.

But I understand their frustration. The two parties have colluded for decades over this issue and citizens are getting pissed-off. And it isn't a strictly party-line thing, though both parties are busy trying to dance on the precipice without going too far.

The danger is that a really clever politician could get ahead of this issue, mix it with Islamic terrorism, and have a perfect political storm of demagoguery.

Imagine if somebody like Huey Long got into it, for example.
I realize the movement still has a high potential to turn south (no pun intended), but so far, they haven't behaved like a vigilante group. They have, to the best of their ability, acted as an arm of the border patrol. They have been able to successfully avoid conflict through the consistent use of superior numbers and respect for their quarry. But I also know that sooner or later there's bound be an incident that will have to be dealt with.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 07:02 PM
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have a problem with shrub narcing on the minutedudes to the mexicans.. it just seems like that's just wrong and endagering his own citizens (US). the fucking border needs to be sealed. NOW!
I'm not a big fan of "sealing the border". I think the market place would be a better mechanism for shutting off illegals. If you throw employers in jail, the number of illegals coming across the border would be drastically reduced. Once the labor market drys up for these people, the resources we have would more than be enough to control the border. I've also lived in Texas for a long time, and see Mexico as simply a part of the United States that hasn't quite arrived yet. Our history is deeply intertwined, and I just don't see Mexico as a "foreign" country. Under the right conditions, I would have no problem incorporating Mexico into the United States. We should do it the same way we did the Wild West, organie them into terroritories, and admit each terroritory if it can clean up it's law-and-order act, sending in the calvary if requested. I think Bush and Fox have come to the conclusion this is inevitable. Fox essentially takes orders from Bush, so I just can't see it as 'treason'.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
I realize the movement still has a high potential to turn south (no pun intended), but so far, they haven't behaved like a vigilante group. They have, to the best of their ability, acted as an arm of the border patrol. They have been able to successfully avoid conflict through the consistent use of superior numbers and respect for their quarry. But I also know that sooner or later there's bound be an incident that will have to be dealt with.
Which is why Bush is tipping them off. The worst thing in the world would be the federales machine gunning a bunch of these cowboys who accidently wander into Mexico. The Federales are in the middle of a war right now with the cartels Bush is tipping them off so they don't shoot them by accident.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 08:31 PM
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Which is why Bush is tipping them off. The worst thing in the world would be the federales machine gunning a bunch of these cowboys who accidently wander into Mexico. The Federales are in the middle of a war right now with the cartels Bush is tipping them off so they don't shoot them by accident.

I wouldn't have thought of that. Instead, I would have marked it off to typical reflexive negativism of entrenched federal bureaucracy. No appointee bureaucrat enjoys being shown-up by amateurs, especially civilians.

Not discounting what you're suggesting, merely acknowledging that I hadn't considered that.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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I suppose its possible, but I don't know. Given the reputation of the Border Patrol as the dregs of law enforcement, I suspect the minutemen have actually raised the bar considerably. They know they're under a microscope, and for the most part, they're locals with a vested interest in the border communities they're standing watch over. My point is that they aren't likely to wander into Mexico, since they probably know the lay of the land better than those on the federal payroll. Of course, I'm just talking Arizona here -- I don't know what's up with these guys in Texas or Cali...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 08:55 PM
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"Dregs of LE"? I'm so far removed from Border Patrol that I didn't know how they're regarded. I only know one guy and that's through the internet, so my perception is probably shot on that issue. But that one guy has his shit together, IMO. I'd like to think there are many more like him.

Maybe that opinion comes from regular LE. In which case it's similar to the way LE looks at FWS Enforcement. They're not that good at detective work but many of them are excellent trackers, and I don't mean just shoe impressions. IN BP, like FWS LE, it maybe that tracking is more valuable than typical police work. Mostly speculation.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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