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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 12:54 PM
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RE: Immigration?

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kvining - 3/31/2006 2:26 PM
The unification of North America is inevitable.

We have been saying that for years - even have the map ready ..

edit - server no-like attachment right now

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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 05:26 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Immigration is a symptom of the real problem. What is Mexico doing to enforce decent wages in its country? How can we help Mexico have a stronger economy?

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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:11 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Unification would require Mexico to come under the jurisdiction of the US Federal court system. That in turn would trigger a clean up of their police system, which is at the heart of their problems. Once true law and order is established, the copious oil and some of the best unspoiled real estate in the world will take care of the rest.

It would, however, be one hell of a shock to this country. The vast majority of Mexicans in the poorest parts of Northern Mexico are the descendents of the 25 million Indians who fled our genocide in the 1880s.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:20 PM
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RE: Immigration?

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kvining - 3/31/2006 10:11 PM

Unification would require Mexico to come under the jurisdiction of the US Federal court system. That in turn would trigger a clean up of their police system, which is at the heart of their problems. Once true law and order is established, the copious oil and some of the best unspoiled real estate in the world will take care of the rest.

It would, however, be one hell of a shock to this country. The vast majority of Mexicans in the poorest parts of Northern Mexico are the descendents of the 25 million Indians who fled our genocide in the 1880s.
How about we adopt Mexican laws instead? I want a donkey show in my town[}:)]
post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:50 PM
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RE: Immigration?

I recently hired an Eastern European technnical specialist after spending six months searching for a qualified American citizen. The job involves sensitive defense department work and using foreign nationals raises a bunch of seriously tedious administrative security procedures. Since this guy was heels to head above any other applicants, I bit the bullet and took on the administrative rules.

The person is also applying for citizenship and hopefully will be through the process by June. I was discussing this illegal immigration issue with him and found his perspective interesting.

His view of immigration policy is, the US has none. You cannot start the process from your home country by going into a consulate or embassy and requesting forms or procedure details. You have to, apparently, get into the US by hook or by crook, get a green card (or not and wait for this amnesty deal), and then start the process of applying for citizenship or permanent residence. In his view, this procedure heavily favors those who are willing to sneak across the Southern border, and is distorting the immigration pattern that historically existed and contributed to the cross section of Americans.

He contrasted this with Canada, where he first immigrated to (he only applied for and was granted an allowance to live in Canada - he did not apply for Canadian citizenship), because they had a policy. He and his wife had to apply to immigrate, and one of the qualifications they had to demonstrate was a marketable skillset that would benefit Canada. A similar process in the United States would allow a selection process that encouraged hard working, skilled people to become American citizens instead of confronting such interested candidates with a "Catch 22" set of immigration rules that require the applicant to take things into his own or her own hands (or feet?). Instead our policy selectively opens the gate to those, in his words, with the opportunity and physical skills needed to make it across the border when no one is looking. Granting amnesty to these people is genuinely offensive to those who have endured the "legal" route, in spite of the temptation to illegally get into our country.

There seems to be some logic worth examining here. It sounds like the illegal alien question is second to what is our process and what should our process be for selecting future American citizens? Jim
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post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 10:43 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Quote:
kvining - 3/31/2006 7:11 PM

Unification would require Mexico to come under the jurisdiction of the US Federal court system. That in turn would trigger a clean up of their police system, which is at the heart of their problems. Once true law and order is established, the copious oil and some of the best unspoiled real estate in the world will take care of the rest.

It would, however, be one hell of a shock to this country. The vast majority of Mexicans in the poorest parts of Northern Mexico are the descendents of the 25 million Indians who fled our genocide in the 1880s.
That is really scary.
Can you imagine O J Simpson trial in Mexican court?
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post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 10:48 PM
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RE: Immigration?

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tiggerfink - 3/30/2006 4:36 PM

I do not get it. If they want to be in this country so bad, why in the hell are they waving the Mexican flag. This is America and if they want to be in America they should wave the American flag.
That is an easy one.
Too many lazy A**holes in this country are afraid of competition and deny them full rights.
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post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-01-2006, 02:41 PM
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RE: Immigration?


Immigration 101 for beginners and non-Texans.
Molly Ivins

In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, and my memory of the events may not be perfect -- for example, for years I've been claiming Jimmy Carter was president at the time, but that's the kind of detail one often loses track of in Terlingua.

Anyway, it was '83 or some year right around there when we held The Fence climbing contest. See, people talked about building The Fence back then, too. The Fence along the Mexican border. To keep Them out.

At the time, the proposal was quite specific -- a 17-foot cyclone fence with bob wire at the top. So a test fence was built at Terlingua, and the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence Climbing Contest took place. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: 30 seconds.

I tell this story to make the one single point about the border and immigration we know to be true: The Fence will not work. No fence will work. The Great darn Wall of China will not work. Do not build a fence. It will not work. They will come anyway. Over, under or through.

Some of you think a fence will work because Israel has one. Israel is a very small country. Anyone who says a fence can fix this problem is a demagogue and an ass.

Numero Two-o, should you actually want to stop Mexicans and OTMs (other than Mexicans) from coming to the United States, here is how to do it: Find an illegal worker at a large corporation. This is not difficult -- brooms and mops are big tip-offs. Then put the CEO of that corporation in prison for two or more years for violating the law against hiring illegal workers.

Got it? You can also imprison the corporate official who actually hired the illegal and, just to make sure, put some Betty Sue Billups -- housewife, preferably one with blonde hair in a flip -- in the joint for a two-year stretch for hiring a Mexican gardener. Thus Americans are reminded that the law says it is illegal to hire illegal workers and that anyone who hires one is responsible for verifying whether or not his or her papers are in order. If you get fooled and one slips by you, too bad, you go to jail anyway. When there are no jobs for illegal workers, they do not come. Got it?

Of course, this has been proposed before, because there is nothing new in the immigration debate. As the current issue of Texas Monthly reminds us, the old bracero program dating from World War II was actually amended in 1952 to pass the "Texas proviso," shielding employers of illegal workers from criminal penalties. They got the exemption because Texas growers flat refused to pay the required bracero wage of 30 cents an hour. Instead of punishing Texas growers for breaking the law, Congress rewarded them.

In 1986, the Reagan administration took a shot at immigration reform and reinstated penalties on employers. They weren't enforced worth a darn, of course. In 2004, only three American companies were threatened with fines for hiring illegal workers. Doesn't work if you don't enforce it.

This brings us to the great Republican divide on the issue. Conservatives, in general, are anti-immigrant for the same reasons they have always been anti-immigrant -- a proud tradition in our nation of immigrants going back to the days of the Founders, when Ben Franklin thought we were going to be overrun by Germans. But Business likes illegal workers. The Chamber of Commerce lobbies for them. They're lobbying now for a new bracero program. What a bonanza for Bidness.

Old-fashioned anti-immigrant prejudice always brings out some old-fashioned racists. This time around, they have started claiming that Mexicans can't assimilate. A sillier idea I've never heard. Why don't they come to Texas and meet up with Lars Gonzales, Erin Rodriguez and Bubba at the bowling alley. They can drink some Lone Star, listen to some conjunto and chill.

Racists seem obsessed by the idea that illegal workers -- the hardest-working, poorest people in America -- are somehow getting away with something, sneaking goodies that should be for Americans. You can always avoid this problem by having no social services. This is the refreshing Texas model, and it works a treat.

Aren't y'all grateful that we're down here doing exactly nothing for the people of our state, legal or illegal? Think what a terrible message it would send if you swapped Texas with Vermont, and they all got health care. In Texas, we never worry about illegals taking advantage of social benefits provided by our taxpayers. Incredibly clever, no?

One nice thing about the benefit of long experience with la frontera is that we in Texas don't have to run around getting all hysterical about immigrants. The border is porous. When you want cheap labor, you open it up; when you don't, you shut it down. It works to our benefit -- it always has.

To find out more about Molly Ivins and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com.





Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 03:05 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Nicely written, as one would expect from the author.

I predict that Congress with spend an awful lot of energy creating and distributing gas bags of hot air over this subject, each side proposing some sort of piss-ant program to spend lots of tax dollars to do something devoid of effect and intended to convince the Voters Back Home that their Man In Washington is protecting the nation from the depredations of the other party.

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post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-2006, 04:49 PM
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RE: Immigration?

I do not think the fence will work. But we should enforce the fines and make people accountable for hiring illegals.

Here is the TiggerFink Immigration Plan.


1. US citizens have priority over non-US citizens in jobs.
2. There will be a Federal standard minimum wage for the US. Each State can raise the minimum wage, but can not go lower than the Federal standard.
3. All prisoners shall work if not physical able. 40% of their wages will be taken for taxes.
4. All companies must work with INS to hire non-US citizens.
5. All non-US citizens must pay a small fee for registration.
6. If a company is caught hiring a non-US citizen without going through INS, the company will be fine $1,000,000 a day for every day the non-US citizen has work.
7. All non-US citizen work request will be handle by INS. INS will have offices in each state to handle seasonal workers. All companies, farmers, and other business entity can hire non-US citizens as long as they work with INS.
8. All non-US citizens shall pay taxes.
9. Children of non-US citizens do not qualify automatically for US citizenship.
10. If you are in the work program for 10 years, you can qualify for US citizenship.

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