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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 11:17 AM
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RE: Immigration?

Quote:
Botnst - 3/29/2006 8:00 AM

Quote:
430 - 3/29/2006 7:46 AM

Quote:
kvining - 3/28/2006 11:22 AM

I don't buy the "jobs nobody wants" BS. Mexico doesn't produce just bean pickers, they produce plumbers, carpenters and college grads just like any other nation does, and I am seeing more and more of them everywhere. Business loves them, and quite frankly uses them to bust unions. When I was a kid, you could go to a construction site, go to work as a "helper", make good money if you worked hard while you learned a trade. No more. Go to a construction job site. It's all fucking Mexicans, from the lowest paid laborers to the master level workers.

Plain and simple, it's racketeering. Businesses that use legal labor are driven out of business by crooks and traitors who hire illegals. They are aiding and abetting a foreign army that has invaded us without guns, and they get a free pass because they have the GOP whores sucking their cranks. Until we throw a few CEO's in prison, this will never,never stop. We have two choices - either start locking up those who hire them while we confiscate their businesses and turn their assets over to those who compete legally, or annex the country. Fences, jackboot border stormtroopers, all are stupid ideas that won't work, which is why the GOP dick suckers are in favor of them. Not one word about a national biometric ID for SS cards. Not one word defining those who hire illegals as traitors. Just phony authoritarian bullshit. 40% of illegals got here by overstaying vistor's visas. If the Mexicans stop coming, they will simply be replaced by Chinese and Jamaicans hiding in ships, while the Mexicans save up for a plane ticket to Disneyland. There is only one place to attack this - put employers in prison.
The first part of your post is correct. Although I would not have used the same description for the workers, esp. seeing that they are not all Mexicans. Plenty of other countriyes south of the border.

But your blame the GOP crap gets tired. Try and be honest both parties are equally guilty. Both parties have put their votes up for sale. They are testing the winds to see if it is better to cater to the hispanic population that wants to 'take back the border states and make the national language spanish' and their tractional base of voters.

As with most arguments in politics the core salient points are lost in the hyperbole.

It is simple. If you are here illegally you are a criminal and should be deported. You should get no public assistance. If you need medical care only life threatening injuries & dieses should be treated and only to get them out of danger. All gov't business should take place in English. If you are an employer and hire illegal immigrants you should be punished. No slap on the wrist but painful enough to make people think twice.
By putting the onus on the employer you empower the employer with a form of police authority and burdens the employer with having to become a document expert.

Unless, as Kirk often says, a national ID card is required of all citizens. But the rightwingnuts think that is another sign of the apocalypse, being marked with the sign of the beast or some such, and they will fight it and their sycophants in Congress will portray it as another assault by Big Gov. But this time it may get over that hump if it can get some air time.

B
In my book you do have to place a certain amount of onus on the employer. But you also have to give them the tools to do the job. Be that a national ID (which I am not for, but not staunchly against), a database to check SS number and other relevant information, or something else.
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 11:40 AM
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RE: Immigration?

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Botnst - 3/28/2006 8:44 AM

Or we drop the pretence of national identity and open the borders north and south. Sort of a steroidal NAFTA.

Currently we get the best of everything from illegal aliens. They work their butts off at low wages in jobs nobody else wants, thus holding-down labor costs across all economic sectors. Taxes are paid at all levels and SSI is taken.
First, a good number of illegal aliens are paid under the table and do not pay into either the tax system or SSI. To what SS# would they pay taxes to if they are illegal?

Your second comment about needing the guest worker program to keep costs down is a great economic model of slavery in the 1850's.

The real argument that folks that support a guest program and amnesty program is the perception that all of the illegal aliens are either pickers or maids or carpenters or general laborers or, in our local case, horse farm workers. The more pressing problem is the mass of gang members and drug importers and and illegals that work the border areas bringing in other illegals from both the Americas and throughout the world. Also, theft of commerce in the Larado - Neuvo Larado area from the illegal alein gangs is making the Mafia look like amateur night.

So when looking at the differing levels of illegals, the only common demoninator is that they are, in fact illegal and trying to filter through the scales of illegal would be harder than a blanket policy.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 12:54 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Quote:
azimuth - 3/29/2006 10:53 AM

Quote:
kvining - 3/29/2006 10:23 AM

Annexing Mexico is smart, in fact, all of Central America should be united with us. They need honest government. We need oil and a young working population, and real estate development alone would fuel a better local economy for these people so they don't have to flee. The problem is removing the corrupt entrenched ruling classes in these countries that have brought these people centuries of misery thru blatant criminality. If Bubba needs a jack boot thug job, there it is.
Again see you understand the issues at hand. Wouldn't this be a hostile take-over then? I mean how many corrupt leaders will throw up thier hands in surrender at the suggestion of assimilation?
It may be time to bring up BMDs. Burros of Mass Destruction. They are aimed at us as we speak.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 01:54 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Quote:
mcbear300E - 3/29/2006 1:40 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 3/28/2006 8:44 AM

Or we drop the pretence of national identity and open the borders north and south. Sort of a steroidal NAFTA.

Currently we get the best of everything from illegal aliens. They work their butts off at low wages in jobs nobody else wants, thus holding-down labor costs across all economic sectors. Taxes are paid at all levels and SSI is taken.
First, a good number of illegal aliens are paid under the table and do not pay into either the tax system or SSI. To what SS# would they pay taxes to if they are illegal?

Your second comment about needing the guest worker program to keep costs down is a great economic model of slavery in the 1850's.

The real argument that folks that support a guest program and amnesty program is the perception that all of the illegal aliens are either pickers or maids or carpenters or general laborers or, in our local case, horse farm workers. The more pressing problem is the mass of gang members and drug importers and and illegals that work the border areas bringing in other illegals from both the Americas and throughout the world. Also, theft of commerce in the Larado - Neuvo Larado area from the illegal alein gangs is making the Mafia look like amateur night.

So when looking at the differing levels of illegals, the only common demoninator is that they are, in fact illegal and trying to filter through the scales of illegal would be harder than a blanket policy.
Millions of them pay taxes and SS - in fact, it is their move to legitimate business that has fueled the explosion of them being here. Business has been so successful in keeping National ID and employer sanctions off the books and full of loopholes that the whole thing has moved beyond the nannies and ag workers to big business - if it was only underground economy, it would be tolerable. Now it is skilled trades, and increasingly, white collar workers. Software translates to Spanish at the flick of a switch, so who cares what language white collar workers speak anymore.

The filter is simple - a national ID card. We in the US have got to stop looking at this place like its the wild frontier - it isn't anymore. We need to treat America as an exclusive club that only those who win the ultimate lottery - being born here - get to join. If we don't protect that, our birthright is meaningless and we might as well have been born in Bangladesh. We need to get the paranoid bullshit out of this. As far as the comments above that this will turn employers into police - how wrong! they are already required to verify eligibility, only they have a million loopholes to beat the rap if they are wrong. There is nothing new here, and it would be easier than what they do now, with the burden on the state to maintain the system. With a national ID system based on a biometric database, we can easily tell who is supposed to be here, and who ain't. If we are going to be a computerized society, then we should start taking advantage of them to protect ourselves and our jobs. And the people we catch without them, why we can just implant a barcode RF in their necks and stamp 666 on their foreheads and wrists. What's to be paranoid about?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 09:29 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Burros of mass destruction........that's funny stuff.

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:10 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Hey, it's serious stuff, and unlike Bush, I have actually proof that they are aimed right at us:


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:14 PM
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RE: Immigration?

lol, KV[:D]

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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:19 PM
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:29 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Thank you Thrillkill for not only showing us what an utterly evil enemey we are dealing with, but for also showing us what kinds of magazines you enjoy.

Mark this man well, his name is Saddam Jose. His two sons, WhoreHay and OHSay are also very dangerous.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:31 PM
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RE: Immigration?

Thank you Thrillkill for not only showing us what an utterly evil enemey we are dealing with, but for also showing us what kinds of magazines you enjoy.

Mark this man well, his name is Saddam Jose. His two sons, WhoreHay and OHSay are also very dangerous.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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