Iraq goes totally FUBAR - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:12 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

This is a test. I think this thread has a short circuit. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:16 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Well, that seemed to work, so I will try this:

Quote:
Botnst - 3/29/2006 9:55 PM

The nation wasn't divided in the begining in the war in Vietnam. That developed as a result of Lyndon pretending he was a general and MacNamara pretending he knew more than anybody how to do anything.
What exactly was at stake in Vietnam? And other than the lives of more than 50,000 soldiers, and some gross multiple of that number who were forever damaged physically or mentally, and a bunch of national "treasure," and our national stature, what that was at stake and warranted the start of the war was lost when we quit and went home? What was to "win" that was "lost" in the final outcome? How would winning have changed our national security for the better? Had we not lost I believe we would still be there, spending tax dollars and trying to use force to subjugate a smaller nation.

At the moment the public seems aware enough to separate bad political judgement that got us into a similar dead end war from the actions of our soldiers carrying out orders to implement the bad political judgement of the President. The anti-war movement of the Vietnam era was off base with the reaction to soldiers returning. But even worse is the idea that a President has the authority spend the lives of American soldiers to further his personal political agenda. The result of supporting this philosophy will be the return of the draft and another Vietnam-like national upheaval. While we remain exposed to real dangers.

Quote:
Botnst - 3/29/2006 9:55 PM
Things started f-ing-up in Iraq with Paul Bremmer. With his 'leadership' the military lost the initiative and became defensive. Now the party politics in Washington have infected the perception so completely that most Americans conflate increasing political confusion at home with violent, diverse and competing interests among criminals, theocrats, fascists (Baathists), and so forth. Meanwhile, polls in Iraq indicate that most Iraqis believe their lives are better now than before the war and that their lives will get even better when the coalition leaves. That is excellent news, given the level of extreme violence in some areas.

Especially promising is their optimism for the future and their desire to see us leave. That combination means that they are becoming increasingly self-confident and self-reliant. After the years of oppression from Saddam and his fascists, these people are becoming confident in themselves and their future.

B
Well Bot, that sure was peculiar.

As I recall the "Yankee go home" chant started even before 100 Americans died there. Why didn't we just leave then? I think the "polls" showed the same data.

I am all for leaving. The sooner the better. There is no rationale for any other result, and putting it off just costs more lives. But, I have never been able to figure out exactly what those poll responses mean. What exactly is better? Do Iraqis find the suspense of not knowing if they will be killed while shopping or applying for a job today by "insurgents" more tolerable than wondering if Saddam's thugs were going to collect them in their sleep? What is their definition of what makes them optimistic? Is it really just us leaving?

KV, give the general or whatever he is a break. It is getting pretty stressful over there. The general is no more in a position to end the occupation than the GIs. Fucking up like that is a sure sign we are losing our grip. It is a bad agenda issued by a team of unqualified people. It is time to make Congress do their jobs and save this country from these traitorous imposters of American leadership. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

You know what makes me sick of these generals? Constant propaganda-speak. They have gone out of their minds with Orwellian doublespeak. Anyone they engage is "anti-Iraqi forces". Anyone they kill is a "terrorist". Civilians are never killed, even though they are stacked dead in the street. A military that is that enthralled with lying propaganda - far right wing propaganda at that- is a dangerous military. Bribed "reporters", fake news, every explanation of everything they do spun hard to the right - the entire military establishment coming out of this bullsit "war" is a threat to our liberties. Sooner or later this bunch is going to turn their sights on us.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 09:03 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Unfortunately the Commander in Chief is the head liar and the generals report to him. I know a number of military types from my days growing up with Army brats in Munich, Germany and in my professional life working with the US Navy. None of them are trained to lie or naturally lie, in my experience. This pattern today, which you have described reasonably accurately, is control from the executive branch. Much like the bullshit body count and other Vietnam era lying. An unpopular war breeds this activity.

Yeah, it would be nice if the generals told Bush and his cronies to fuck off and let the real truth out, but it just doesn't work that way. If the President is a liar, by necessity his direct reports will have to lie to cover his lies. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome