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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-28-2006, 09:27 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Quote:
Ammonium - 3/29/2006 5:52 AM

In the end though, know who wins in Iraq? Iran.

When George Bush toppled Saddam and then disbanded the Iraqi army he single handedly gave Iraq to the Iranians on a silver plater. Know who the major political party in Iraq is? The Islamic Republic of Iraq, the same party that Ayatollah Khomeini created in Iran.

Iran wins, Iraq loses, and the United States looses.

What do you think that Iran and the United States are having direct talks with Iran right now over this issue?! As soon as we pull out the Iranians will roll right in like they are already doing now. GFG GWB.

I know an Iraqi who left Iraq a couple of months ago and she says the same about Iran being the only 'winner' in the war so far. I wish I can figure out what exactly is going on between Iran and the US.



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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-28-2006, 09:32 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Wow, I better go to church this Sunday. You done scared the bejesus outta me [:0]

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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-28-2006, 09:43 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

good luck powerpig-my mom lives in pearl river just across the border. Just got a new roof last weekend but no drywall contractors available yet. We are still cutting up fallen trees on the property and will be for some time. Hope all goes well for you and glad your car made out with scratches!
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-28-2006, 10:53 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Quote:
Marsden - 3/28/2006 8:52 PM

Quote:
kvining - 3/28/2006 9:46 PM


I am sure the Russians had lots of nice places for ICBMs, and I doubt if they put any in Vietnam. The lesson of Vietnam is crystal clear - we should never engage in war as a divided nation. Bush went head long into war, and cared little for how any felt, and instead of leading the democratic process, he manipulated to get a war that HE wanted.

Terrorists already have a million places to operate from - Somali, Columbia, now Venezuela. Our defense against them is not the World War II-style war of occupation that failed in Vietnam - it is modern intelligence methods, and diplomcy to establish cooperative connections between our intelligence apparatus and other countries. Instead, he has shredded the Atlantic alliance, and pissed off the entire world. By acting like jack booted fascists, invading, torturing, occupying, we invite the same treatment the Nazis got.

Perhaps you should consider the opinions of Congressman Murtha, a Vietnam vet who once thought like you do, and now opposes the war, on the grounds it has the opposite effect.
This is exactly the most important point of all.

This war is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.
Exactly.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 06:55 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Thanks! Good luck to your Mom!

Quote:
junkman - 3/28/2006 10:43 PM

good luck powerpig-my mom lives in pearl river just across the border. Just got a new roof last weekend but no drywall contractors available yet. We are still cutting up fallen trees on the property and will be for some time. Hope all goes well for you and glad your car made out with scratches!
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 07:21 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Quote:
powerpig - 3/27/2006 8:28 PM

You seek and destroy the bad element.
How would you define "bad element"? Does an unprovoked invader qualify?

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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 07:41 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

If you're referring to the US invading Iraq, I've already said I don't agree with the way it was handled. I was in during Viet Nam and as the other poster said, it was a very rough time for the returning soldiers. I was at a welcome home ceremony a couple of weeks ago for our troops and I was proud the way the community welcomed them back. What I am saying is we are there so let's get the job done and get the hell out. Just as much as the next person, I don't want this to drag on any longer than it has to. If there is a bad element that poses a threat in Iraq, then it needs to be eliminated. Like it or not, your and my Mercedes depends on oil from these lunatics and several other unstable countries. The biggest mistake we made was to invade Iraq with no exit plan. Viet Nam dragged on for years because we were "advising" on a police action. Also, today's soldiers volunteered. In my day, we had no choice, we were drafted.


Quote:
GermanStar - 3/29/2006 8:21 PM

Quote:
powerpig - 3/27/2006 8:28 PM

You seek and destroy the bad element.
How would you define "bad element"? Does an unprovoked invader qualify?
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 07:55 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Quote:
kvining - 3/28/2006 9:46 PM

Quote:
lear31a driver - 3/28/2006 9:09 PM

I also usually keep quiet concerning political posts, but maybe some hind sight is worth a comment or two.
My history as far as war was Viet Nam, a Marine pilot flying f4's after Nixon lifted the ban on Northern raids. We engaged enemy aircraft, primarily MIG's, dropped crap loads of explosives and took out dozens of military objectives. Before I enlisted, I didn't witness four civilian aircraft used as missles. I didn't worry about some third world country detonating an atomic bomb in LA.
Our situation today is vastly different than 1969-73.

I truly believe that left unchecked, radical groups (Sunnis, Shiites, ect) will and can inflict massive damage on this country, and those that support us. Damage to an extent that few of you could ever imagine. I am afraid that my grandson may see New York on a map, or in photos as we see the Trade Center Towers today.

Yes, we need better direction in Iraq ... but we still need to kick the asses of those that defy our efforts of stabilizing their country. War is not, nor will it ever be a logical matter to round table and resolve.

We lost Viet Nam because of debate, mis direction and political values that weighed more than the mission at hand. Few people realize what a piece of real estate that was for the USSR. Great place to place a few ICBMs. We did a job well done, and many of us died in the process. I'll never forget my reception back in the US ... someone spotting my aviator wings and asking if dropping bombs on children was worth it. No parades, no songs, no free beers.

By the way, let's not forget the other fronts, Iran, North Korea to name a couple.
I am sure the Russians had lots of nice places for ICBMs, and I doubt if they put any in Vietnam. The lesson of Vietnam is crystal clear - we should never engage in war as a divided nation. Bush went head long into war, and cared little for how any felt, and instead of leading the democratic process, he manipulated to get a war that HE wanted.

Terrorists already have a million places to operate from - Somali, Columbia, now Venezuela. Our defense against them is not the World War II-style war of occupation that failed in Vietnam - it is modern intelligence methods, and diplomcy to establish cooperative connections between our intelligence apparatus and other countries. Instead, he has shredded the Atlantic alliance, and pissed off the entire world. By acting like jack booted fascists, invading, torturing, occupying, we invite the same treatment the Nazis got.

Perhaps you should consider the opinions of Congressman Murtha, a Vietnam vet who once thought like you do, and now opposes the war, on the grounds it has the opposite effect.
The nation wasn't divided in the begining in the war in Vietnam. That developed as a result of Lyndon pretending he was a general and MacNamara pretending he knew more than anybody how to do anything.

Things started f-ing-up in Iraq with Paul Bremmer. With his 'leadership' the military lost the initiative and became defensive. Now the party politics in Washington have infected the perception so completely that most Americans conflate increasing political confusion at home with violent, diverse and competing interests among criminals, theocrats, fascists (Baathists), and so forth. Meanwhile, polls in Iraq indicate that most Iraqis believe their lives are better now than before the war and that their lives will get even better when the coalition leaves. That is excellent news, given the level of extreme violence in some areas.

Especially promising is their optimism for the future and their desire to see us leave. That combination means that they are becoming increasingly self-confident and self-reliant. After the years of oppression from Saddam and his fascists, these people are becoming confident in themselves and their future.

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 07:58 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Quote:
Ammonium - 3/28/2006 9:52 PM

In the end though, know who wins in Iraq? Iran.

When George Bush toppled Saddam and then disbanded the Iraqi army he single handedly gave Iraq to the Iranians on a silver plater. Know who the major political party in Iraq is? The Islamic Republic of Iraq, the same party that Ayatollah Khomeini created in Iran.

Iran wins, Iraq loses, and the United States looses.

What do you think that Iran and the United States are having direct talks with Iran right now over this issue?! As soon as we pull out the Iranians will roll right in like they are already doing now. GFG GWB.
Only if the emerging Iraqi military is worse than Saddam's military. The jury is still out on that one as it is still too early to differentiate hopeful hyperbole from American military commanders from reality.

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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-30-2006, 03:17 PM
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RE: Iraq goes totally FUBAR

Quote:
powerpig - 3/29/2006 7:41 PM

Like it or not, your and my Mercedes depends on oil from these lunatics and several other unstable countries.
Not nearly as much as most. In fact, my Mercedes uses only 2% of the oil that yours does.

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