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post #61 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 08:33 PM
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Quote:
Shabah - 2/21/2006 9:25 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 2/21/2006 9:18 PM

Quote:
jjl - 2/21/2006 3:42 PM

The Israelis should pay the Palestinians, because it is their money. While it can be argued that they (the P's) will use this to attack Israel, that should be dealt with as and when it happens. My two cents.
I'll be damned, a rational argument in support of continuing the transaction.

B

PS That the Palestinians voted in free and fair elections and ousted Fatah is a remarkable achievement. Couple that with what is going on in Lebanon and it gives the lie to people who say that democracy cannot happen among Arabs unaccustomed to it. Good for them.
It takes courage to accept that price: starvation for democracy. Don't you think?????
Are those the only alternatives? How ever did the Palestinians survive before this arrangement?

I doubt that the voters thought that far ahead. I think they voted as they did because they were sick of being raped by Fatah while Hamas offered a proven alternative of education and medicine. Good for Hamas for doing what was right and I'm glad that Fatah lost in a big way. Now if Hamas can figure out how to govern instead of murder they might just pull-off the single greatest feat of democracy in the middle east.

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post #62 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Quote:
Botnst - 2/21/2006 10:33 PM

I doubt that the voters thought that far ahead. I think they voted as they did because they were sick of being raped by Fatah while Hamas offered a proven alternative of education and medicine. Good for Hamas for doing what was right and I'm glad that Fatah lost in a big way. Now if Hamas can figure out how to govern instead of murder they might just pull-off the single greatest feat of democracy in the middle east.
Actually I agree with this almost completely. All the more reason, then, that it is tragic that the U.S. and Israel are working so hard to sabotage the success of the democratic process there in Palestine.

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post #63 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 08:59 PM
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Quote:
Marsden - 2/21/2006 10:40 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 2/21/2006 10:33 PM

I doubt that the voters thought that far ahead. I think they voted as they did because they were sick of being raped by Fatah while Hamas offered a proven alternative of education and medicine. Good for Hamas for doing what was right and I'm glad that Fatah lost in a big way. Now if Hamas can figure out how to govern instead of murder they might just pull-off the single greatest feat of democracy in the middle east.
Actually I agree with this almost completely. All the more reason, then, that it is tragic that the U.S. and Israel are working so hard to sabotage the success of the democratic process there in Palestine.
All you have to do is understand that alternative perspectives and arguments are often rational and may have merit. failing to make that effort will remove from your toolbox an important attribute of understanding a problem, Empathy. put some effort into seeing it from the Israeli perspective. It wont hurt you and it may actually help you to understand that there may not be a single, simple answer.

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post #64 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Given the close strictures of your own worldview, it will doubtless surprise you that I was once, like you, a Zionist-sympathizer. Then, my mind became expanded, and do you know what Holmes said about that? No, not Sherlock, the other one.

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post #65 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:10 PM
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Quote:
Marsden - 2/21/2006 11:02 PM

Given the close strictures of your own worldview, it will doubtless surprise you that I was once, like you, a Zionist-sympathizer. Then, my mind became expanded, and do you know what Holmes said about that? No, not Sherlock, the other one.
Your mind was expanded by shrinking the view to being one-sided. Damn, that's some amazing geometry you have there.
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post #66 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Just your characterization, as usual. Anything you disagree with is "one-sided", or, usually, something far worse.

You can do better than that. I still say you can.

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post #67 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:27 PM
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Quote:
Marsden - 2/21/2006 11:11 PM

Just your characterization, as usual. Anything you disagree with is "one-sided", or, usually, something far worse.

You can do better than that. I still say you can.
Read again what we have been saying. I provided two perspectives, one from the Palestinian side and one from the Israeli side. From these two views you implied I am a Zionist.

In contrast, you gave one perspective, that of the Palestinians, and assert that I am biased.

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post #68 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

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Botnst - 2/21/2006 11:27 PM

Read again what we have been saying. I provided two perspectives, one from the Palestinian side and one from the Israeli side. From these two views you implied I am a Zionist.

In contrast, you gave one perspective, that of the Palestinians, and assert that I am biased.

Bot
Bot, I definitely implied that you are Zionist, but not remotely did I base that implication on the present discussion.

More to the point, though, there are many, many more perspectives than the three you identify above. The chief way in which I claim that my worldview was ever "expanded" involves having learned more about the actual universe of experience, as opposed to the limits taken for granted in "polite" discussion in the United States.

Therefore, what you present as a "Palestinian" perspective might, to an actual Palestinian, smack of propaganda. And so on.


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post #69 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:45 PM
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Quote:
Marsden - 2/21/2006 11:37 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 2/21/2006 11:27 PM

Read again what we have been saying. I provided two perspectives, one from the Palestinian side and one from the Israeli side. From these two views you implied I am a Zionist.

In contrast, you gave one perspective, that of the Palestinians, and assert that I am biased.

Bot
Bot, I definitely implied that you are Zionist, but not remotely did I base that implication on the present discussion.

More to the point, though, there are many, many more perspectives than the three you identify above. The chief way in which I claim that my worldview was ever "expanded" involves having learned more about the actual universe of experience, as opposed to the limits taken for granted in "polite" discussion in the United States.

Therefore, what you present as a "Palestinian" perspective might, to an actual Palestinian, smack of propaganda. And so on.

Of course there are many perspectives, probably at least twice the number of perspectives as there are people in Palestine and Israel.

Nonetheless, I offered two oppositional perspectives and you offered one and then said I am a Zionist.

Bot
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post #70 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-22-2006, 06:24 AM
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RE: Israel halts "tax payments" to Palestinians

Someone asked how the Palaestinians survived before Isreal providing the tax. It is called the UN. Ever wonder why the refer to city's as refuge centers? It is because the UN will provide funding.
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