Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 04:52 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

Quote:
am3037 - 2/16/2006 3:11 PM

Quote:
Marsden - 2/17/2006 8:07 PM

Quote:
am3037 - 2/16/2006 3:53 AM
And on the topic of percentages of muslims that are fanatical, why was a predominantly muslim neighbourhood celebrating so vividly in the streets of their austalian city, after 9/11, that makes you think they are such a 'minority'. Underlying sentiment runs deep.
Oh really. Which Australian city? Any substantiation of this? Or did you dream it?
Those muslims weren't gay by any chance were they hmm?
Sydney Rd, Coburg, Melbourne. Also in Lakemba, Sydney. It was on the News here in Australia. They were celebrating the 9/11 tradgedy (though i remember seeing some muslims condemning the actions of those celebrating), not rubbing each other down listening to Ministry of Sound albums in bad hair and makeup on the back of a gay pride trailer. It happened in several western cities around the world, France was another one. Do you guys in the US have predominantly Iraqi/Lebanese/Iranian suburbs?
Do you have even a clue what the word "substantiation" means?
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post #42 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 05:58 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

^^^^
I'm guessing you think, you do
post #43 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 06:08 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

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guage - 2/16/2006 7:58 PM

^^^^
I'm guessing you think, you do
Oh hell yeah he does. He not only substantiationates in public, he substantiationizes whole neighborhoods with his transubstantiationator that handles multiple transubspace equilibrators.

And that's why I always wear my foil hat.
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post #44 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 06:32 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

http://www.glumbert.com/media/rave.html
post #45 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 06:35 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

Quote:
guage - 2/16/2006 8:32 PM

http://www.glumbert.com/media/rave.html
Whoa. Give that man a nuke!
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post #46 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 06:39 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

LOL
post #47 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 07:07 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

Quote:
Botnst - 2/17/2006 1:08 AM

Quote:
guage - 2/16/2006 7:58 PM

^^^^
I'm guessing you think, you do
Oh hell yeah he does. He not only substantiationates in public, he substantiationizes whole neighborhoods with his transubstantiationator that handles multiple transubspace equilibrators.

And that's why I always wear my foil hat.
Trekkie alert.

You are asking for mandibular transmogrificization for those insubstantionatable and immoderatizable remarks.
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post #48 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 07:09 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

Quote:
jjl - 2/16/2006 9:07 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 2/17/2006 1:08 AM

Quote:
guage - 2/16/2006 7:58 PM

^^^^
I'm guessing you think, you do
Oh hell yeah he does. He not only substantiationates in public, he substantiationizes whole neighborhoods with his transubstantiationator that handles multiple transubspace equilibrators.

And that's why I always wear my foil hat.
Trekkie alert.

You are asking for mandibular transmogrificization for those insubstantionatable and immoderatizable remarks.
Engage.

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post #49 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 07:28 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

Nice perspective.

Bot


A Cartoon's Portrait of America
By Anne Applebaum
Wednesday, February 8, 2006; Page A19

The trouble started in Denmark, a faraway country of which we know little. It revolves around cartoons, an art form we associate with light humor. It has sparked riots in Surabaya, Tehran, Peshawar and rural Somalia, places where there aren't many Americans in the best of times. Perhaps that explains the muted American reactions to the violence, anger and deaths -- nine so far -- sparked by a dozen Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad. Nevertheless, the controversy has exposed a few less attractive political undercurrents in America, too:

· Schadenfreude -- or, rather, Americans feeling just a teensy bit relieved that Europeans are the object of flag burnings and riots instead of themselves. To my embarrassment, I felt an involuntary twinge of this myself when I read of cartoon-inspired riots outside a Norwegian NATO base in Afghanistan. In Oslo last year, I was told by a well-traveled, well-educated Norwegian that "America is the most dangerous country in the world." (I wonder if he thinks so now. ) But I also hear a note in the sanctimonious State Department communique, which proclaimed that "inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable." Actually, the European newspapers weren't trying to incite hatred; they were making a point about their own laws and traditions. Were we rushing to look good in the Muslim world at a moment when Europeans, for once, look worse?

· Hypocrisy of the cultural left. Dozens of American newspapers, including The Post, have stated that they won't reprint the cartoons because, in the words of one self-righteous editorial, they prefer to "refrain from gratuitous assaults on religious symbols." Fair enough -- but is this always true? An excellent domestic parallel is the fracas that followed the 1989 publication of "Piss Christ," a photograph of Christ on a crucifix submerged in a jar of urine. That picture -- a work of art that received a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts -- led to congressional denunciations, protests and letter-writing campaigns.

At the time, many U.S. newspapers that refused last week to publish the Danish cartoons -- the Los Angeles Times, the Boston Globe (but apparently not The Post) -- did publish "Piss Christ." The photographer, Andres Serrano, enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, even appearing in a New York Times fashion spread. The picture was exhibited at the Whitney Museum of American Art and elsewhere. The moral: While we are nervous about gratuitously offending believers in distant, underdeveloped countries, we don't mind gratuitously offending believers at home.

· Hypocrisy of the right-wing blogosphere. Remember the controversy over Newsweek and the Koran? Last year Newsweek printed an allegation about mistreatment of the Koran at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base that -- although strikingly similar to interrogation techniques actually used to intimidate Muslims at Guantanamo -- was not substantiated by an official government investigation. It hardly mattered: Abroad, Muslim politicians and clerics promoted and exaggerated the Koran story, just as they are now promoting and exaggerating the Danish cartoon story. The result was rioting and violence on a scale similar to the rioting and violence of the past week.

But although that controversy was every bit as manipulated as this one, self-styled U.S. "conservatives" blamed not cynical politicians and clerics but Newsweek for (accidentally) inciting violence in the Muslim world: "Newsweek lied, people died." Worse, much of the commentary implied that Newsweek was not only wrong to make a mistake (which it was) but also that the magazine was wrong to investigate the alleged misconduct of U.S. soldiers. Logically, the bloggers should now be attacking the Danish newspaper for (less accidentally) inciting violence in the Muslim world. Oddly enough, though, I've heard no cries of "Jyllands-Posten insulted, people died." The moral is: We defend press freedom if it means Danish cartoonists' right to caricature Muhammad; we don't defend press freedom if it means the mainstream media's right to investigate the U.S. government.

Of course, some good may come out of this story, even in this country. If nothing else, this controversy should bring an end to that naive, charming and sadly incorrect American theory of international relations that "the more we all learn about one another, the less we will fight." Gradually, the Islamic world is learning that we don't respect religion in the same manner they do. Slowly, we are learning that they feel differently about the printed word, and the printed picture, from us. And somehow, I've got a feeling that this new knowledge will be not the beginning of understanding but the inspiration for more violence.

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post #50 of 85 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 07:43 PM
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RE: Mr. Amr Khaled’s Message to the World regarding the Danish Cartoons

How can we have respect for Islam when we are too fearful to criticise it?


Muriel Gray on the fury over the Muhammed cartoons



One of the biggest misunderstandings of the crisis caused by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten printing cartoons of Muhammed is that the paper was merely satirising Islam and hadn’t realised that any image of the prophet, insulting or respectful, is utterly taboo to Muslims. This is quite wrong.
The incident arose from the fact that an author of a children’s book about the life of Muhammed wanted it illustrated but couldn’t find any artist brave enough to risk offending those who currently express their offence by murdering the offender. Hence in a deliberate test of freedom of speech, the newspaper, not Muslim and therefore not bound by this taboo, sought artists willing to draw Muhammed. The mild satire on the state of Islamic jihad was incidental.

So yes, it was a deliberate provocation, a massive shove in the playground, but they didn’t start the fight. The initial provocation came from Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989 when he pronounced a death sentence on the author Salman Rushdie for having a written a novel that contained another Islamic taboo, that of disrespecting the Koran. This was a stroke of genius. Whereas critics of repugnant ideologies were only in peril when they acted openly in the country guilty of the tyranny, and were free to express their disgust from the safety of a civilised country, Khomeini came up with the brilliant Mafia-like scheme of recruiting his foot soldiers everywhere.

Knowing that there are now Muslims in almost every country in the world, he removed that safety net once offered to people such as critics of the USSR or Idi Amin, so that even in safe, tolerant Britain, nobody would ever again dare write, paint, broadcast, film or lecture on anti-Islamic views for fear of their lives. Of course most Muslims, being sane, peaceful human beings, simply ignored the psychotic Khomeini. But tragically the subsequent brutal murder of Theo Van Gogh, the deadly riots sparked by journalist Isioma Daniel’s article about Miss World in Nigeria, and the threats to people like author Irshadi Manji for writing a witty book about reforming Islam, have had such an effect that they have bought Islam immunity from criticism, not through respect, but through fear.

This was what Jyllands-Posten was testing, and the result, as we can see, is that it has proved its point spectacularly. The other European papers which published the cartoons were, with a couple of exceptions, not trying to further provoke Muslims, but were engaging in an “I am Spartacus� moment, showing solidarity for Denmark and trying to gain enough similar support throughout Europe that it would make it harder for the extremists. What if everyone publishes? Going to kill everyone? Going to boycott goods from every European country? If only the Czech Republic would publish the cartoons then Hamas would have to boycott Semtex.

This may seem a storm in a teacup, but it is in fact a profoundly serious moment in our history. Fundamentalism, utterly at odds with the Western values so vigorously and courageously fought for over two bloody world wars, has successfully undermined the very linchpin of our freedom. Our culture falls way short of being perfect, but it is a work in progress. We are our own self-critics, the majority of us just as appalled by the trademarks of Western excesses like pornography, yob culture and rampant, wasteful consumerism as any mullah would be.

But when the Twin Tower murderers spent their last night alive experiencing Western culture, did they go to The Guggenheim? Did they see an Arthur Miller play, listen to a recital of Mozart’s Requiem, take in a showing of a Hitchcock film or even drive a Ferrari? No. They went to a lap-dancing bar. So when hardline Islamists shout that we don’t understand their culture, the greater truth is that they clearly don’t understand ours. For instance, how, as a feminist, can I explain to an extremist that while the sight of 12-year-old girl with a thong cutting her half-exposed bare bottom in two is offensive to me, so too is the sight of a woman in a burka.

But what of moderate Islam? British Muslims are represented by the unelected Sir Iqbal Sacranie, a man at the forefront of the book-burning mob who threatened Rushdie’s life, when Sacranie declared: “Death, I think, is too easy for him.� For this part in incitement to murder, Sacranie was awarded not the stiff custodial sentence one might expect, but a knighthood. Now this hypocrite says that he “believes in freedom of speech�, although he was complicit in attempting to destroy it, and we must all “respect other people’s beliefs�. If that is so, then logically we must respect the beliefs of Nick Griffin and the BNP. But we do not. We despise them. What we respect is Griffin’s right to be despicable. Hardline Islamists want us to lose the right to criticise all that is contemptible about their beliefs, without understanding how hard we are all working to allow them that exact same freedom.

This paper’s belief in freedom of speech is paramount. The decision not to reprint the cartoons, not to declare ourselves another Spartacus in support of our European colleagues, was taken, at least partly, out of consideration for the safety of the staff, and the safety of Scottish people here and abroad, and I fully support it. But the extremists, who created the fear that made that decision a foregone conclusion, must understand that if they think the UK press have done this out of respect, they are so very wrong. They have undoubtedly won this battle hands down. Well done. We are afraid. But do they think people neutered and silenced by fear are going to work at embracing their culture, their religion or their values? Clearly, they don’t care. The danger of this backlashing on to our innocent Muslim fellow citizens is a distinct possibility and the thought makes me sick to the stomach. It looks as though those of us aching for the misery of all this hatred to end are in for a long wait.



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