Hamas Wins Big in Palestine - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

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Botnst - 1/27/2006 9:44 PM

Here's an interesting graphic. It shows the population by country of nations that have been democracies for greater than 30 years in the period 1945 - 1995.
Any this relates to Hamas how?
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post #52 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

Quote:
Botnst - 1/27/2006 9:44 PM

Here's an interesting graphic. It shows the population by country of nations that have been democracies for greater than 30 years in the period 1945 - 1995.
Any this relates to Hamas how?
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post #53 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 09:23 PM
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

It's a non sequitar, I guess. I was thinking about Hamas learning democracy through coming to power in an election. Then I got to thinking about how long it takes to maintain a stable system.


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It's a non sequitar, I guess. I was thinking about Hamas learning democracy through coming to power in an election. Then I got to thinking about how long it takes to maintain a stable system.
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post #54 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

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Botnst - 1/27/2006 11:23 PM

It's a non sequitar, I guess. I was thinking about Hamas learning democracy through coming to power in an election. Then I got to thinking about how long it takes to maintain a stable system.


00000000000HHHHHHHHHH000000000000000000000


It's a non sequitar, I guess. I was thinking about Hamas learning democracy through coming to power in an election. Then I got to thinking about how long it takes to maintain a stable system.
Remember that speach you gave me about useless posting...um, yeah
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post #55 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 10:17 PM
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

Quote:
Botnst - 1/27/2006 11:23 PM

It's a non sequitar, I guess. I was thinking about Hamas learning democracy through coming to power in an election. Then I got to thinking about how long it takes to maintain a stable system.


00000000000HHHHHHHHHH000000000000000000000


It's a non sequitar, I guess. I was thinking about Hamas learning democracy through coming to power in an election. Then I got to thinking about how long it takes to maintain a stable system.
I just don't think it works that way. Succesful democracies are inherently stable, formed by groups of willing people who posses a desire to cooperate so that they may all act for the common good. India was unstable until the Muslims were jettisoned - they simply were not going to work as a peaceful society otherwise. Same is true for Iraq.

As Hitler has shown, strong democracies often do not follow from shaky ones. The Arabs are in the Weimer stage. Hamas is the Nazi stage, as is also unfolding in Iran. Iraq will be a failed experiment in enforced democracy, something we thought could be done due to our experience with the Japanese and the Germans. Those worked because the societies had reached the point needed to achieve democracy - elements that worked against the common good were eliminated by war, leaving groups that wished to cooperate amongst themselves to achieve a better life. Iraq is simply made up of groups which will not cooperate unless a genocidal solution is used, something we as a people are incapable of doing. Japan, Germany, both were genocides of fascist idealogical groups. Despite our feel-good propaganda bout Marshall Plans and such, that is really what brought democracy to these societies, especially since the Red ideological groups had also been exterminated by Hitler. To do the same thing in Iraq is impossible, because religion is involved.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #56 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 07:03 AM
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

Your probably right--better than 50% chance that your prognosticating will be found accurate. But it's not a certainty.

Here's hoping they get political wisdom instead of more guns.

B
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post #57 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 11:20 AM
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

Oh, I've got a much better chance than 50%. It's been proven over and over again. Ireland was part of one of the most advanced democratic countries in the world. For historical resentments, it refused to be a member of this democracy. They proved the point now being proven in Iraq - a democracy cannot function when one faction is voting with bullets. History has repeatedly shown only two solutions - partition or genocide. It is an axiom of history. The same is true in reverse - when a given ethnological group wishes to unite to form a nation, it is just as stupid to resist it. Our own history shows it. This democracy ceased to exist, only saved by a genocide of the Southern planter class. Iraq was held together by Saddam through genocide and . Now, we merely take his place.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #58 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 12:48 PM
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RE: Hamas Wins Big in Palestine

One thing is for sure... We sure have made things better in the middle east (and worldwide).[xx(]
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