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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 02:11 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Who said we don't want wiretaps? What we want are WARRANTS to know who is being wiretapped. If you ask the question that way, the polls go in opposite directions. As has been repeatedly pointed out here, the President has 72 hours to get a warrant. Sure sounds like "activated terror cells" are covered in there. So the question arises, why would he want to do so without warrants? He is not prevented from wiretapping, and he can act immediately. So the real question is: why does he not want to go before a court? Given their history of lying, prefabicration, disinformation, and military murder, it is obvious - he is wiretapping his political enemies, because he is a Nazi fuck.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 03:05 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Quote:
Botnst - 1/19/2006 8:04 AM

Quote:
Ammonium - 1/18/2006 9:56 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 1/18/2006 9:24 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 1/18/2006 9:15 PM

The issue AMgod raised concerned physical searches.
But that has nothing to do with the whole current imbroglio, does it? I mean, if AMGod pursues a non sequitar and throws red herrings with wild abandon doesn't mean we must argue it, right?

B
What exactly is the point to your posting? AMgod raised an issue and I argued my side back. Have I done anything wrong?
Wrong? Certainly not. It's just that it seems a waste o electrons to beat senseless a non sequitar with a red herring.

B
I got one for you...go fuck yourself. Don't like my posting, don't read it. Click a different thread and ramble on about whatever you do there.
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 03:07 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Quote:
kvining - 1/19/2006 4:11 PM

Who said we don't want wiretaps? What we want are WARRANTS to know who is being wiretapped. If you ask the question that way, the polls go in opposite directions. As has been repeatedly pointed out here, the President has 72 hours to get a warrant. Sure sounds like "activated terror cells" are covered in there. So the question arises, why would he want to do so without warrants? He is not prevented from wiretapping, and he can act immediately. So the real question is: why does he not want to go before a court? Given their history of lying, prefabicration, disinformation, and military murder, it is obvious - he is wiretapping his political enemies, because he is a Nazi fuck.
Justice Dept doesn't need a wiretap warrant for overseas calls or if one caller is a foreign national, right? I believe the warrant is required only for domestic calls between citizens.

Not sure of that though. Verified clarification would be useful.

B
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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 03:49 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

It's always nice to see Botnst make another friend.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 04:08 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Quote:
Botnst - 1/19/2006 5:07 PM

Quote:
kvining - 1/19/2006 4:11 PM

Who said we don't want wiretaps? What we want are WARRANTS to know who is being wiretapped. If you ask the question that way, the polls go in opposite directions. As has been repeatedly pointed out here, the President has 72 hours to get a warrant. Sure sounds like "activated terror cells" are covered in there. So the question arises, why would he want to do so without warrants? He is not prevented from wiretapping, and he can act immediately. So the real question is: why does he not want to go before a court? Given their history of lying, prefabicration, disinformation, and military murder, it is obvious - he is wiretapping his political enemies, because he is a Nazi fuck.
Justice Dept doesn't need a wiretap warrant for overseas calls or if one caller is a foreign national, right? I believe the warrant is required only for domestic calls between citizens.

Not sure of that though. Verified clarification would be useful.

B
If two American citizens are involved, a warrant must be obtained in almost all cases. The only exception is under the Espionage Act, where the government must later prove an immediate danger to the country existed where a foreign power is involved, or the accused must go free, sort of like the cop's exception to warrants if they can prove duress or potential loss of life can be prevented. This exception was used to apprehend Aldrich Ames, the fellow who sent most of the US CIA assets in Russia to the firing squads in the 80s, when it became obvious he was going to skip the country.

If one American citizen is involved, he doesn't give up his constitutional rights simply because he is talking to a foreigner. But the government has great leeway. The warrantless wiretap can commence immediately, but a warrant must be obtained in 72 hrs. This is the actual part of the law Bush has violated - he failed to obtain a warrant, in other words he failed to notify the court, on the American citizen involved in the warrant. The FISA court is a secret court. It's members are secret, and are chosen only after extensive background check, for the sole purpose of simply oking the target of a warrant. The warrant is secret, the target of the warrant is never notified. The entire purpose of the law is to make sure the Executive branch is not spying on political opponents. Rumors have it that is exactly what they were doing. Colin Powell is mentioned as one who got tapped. Someone ratted on the Bush mob on this one, and it's the ACLU that has the goods. This is going to be a big story.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 04:10 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

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kvining - 1/19/2006 4:49 PM

It's always nice to see Botnst make another friend.
And one from the Kvining school of gentle persuasion no less.

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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 04:13 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

We have given Bush the ability to wire tap anyone at anytime for any reason with no checks and balances. We have to trust him. He is a politician.
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 04:14 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Quote:
ThrillKill - 1/19/2006 5:10 PM

Quote:
kvining - 1/19/2006 4:49 PM

It's always nice to see Botnst make another friend.
And one from the Kvining school of gentle persuasion no less.
Fuckin' A!
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 04:16 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Our number is legion.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-19-2006, 04:21 PM
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RE: Bush can wiretap in time of war

Quote:
Shane - 1/19/2006 6:13 PM

We have given Bush the ability to wire tap anyone at anytime for any reason with no checks and balances. We have to trust him. He is a politician.
That is essentially what the GOP is advocating. And they wonder why I call them fascists? They are essentially saying we need to give up the 4th Amendment. Are they fucking crazy, or what? If they keep this up, all in the name of "terrorism", they are going to seriously destablize this country.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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