Abramaoff to plead guilty to corruption, other charges - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-04-2006, 09:35 PM
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RE: Abramaoff to plead guilty to corruption, other charges

The political system in this country (as in most) is principally an expression of the power of money. I have no idea how you're going to get that reformed, short of a revolution.

The really notable thing about Abramoff is how he'd play both sides of an issue, essentially telling each party they needed to pay him protection money or the other would prevail. Clever, huh.

EDITed for typo [;)]

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-04-2006, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Abramaoff to plead guilty to corruption, other charges

More on Abramaoff's onesidedness, DON'T GET LOST IN THE SPIN!

In Gang of Five, Nina J. Easton recounts a story from the early-1980s heyday of the College Republicans, under the lead of Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed (And Jack Abramoff). According to Easton, before sending out campus recruitment teams, Reed and other CR leaders would require members to memorize the infamous speech from the film Patton, substituting the word "Democrats" for the word "Nazis": "The Democrats are the enemy. Wade into them! Spill their blood! Shoot them in the belly!" One year, the CR's Christmas card even featured a photo of Patton standing atop a hill, binoculars in hand, under the message: "Merry Christmas from the Front."


"It is not our job to seek peaceful coexistence with the left. Our job is to remove them from power permanently." - Jack Abramoff

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-05-2006, 02:53 AM
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RE: Abramaoff to plead guilty to corruption, other charges

Ammonium - 1/4/2006 10:57 PM

430 - 1/4/2006 9:15 PM

MS Fowler - 1/4/2006 8:28 PM

I will not defend anyone who takes, or make bribes. Burn them all. But lets not start the fire until we have the evidence.
These are individual crimes; it is not a culture of corruption; it is not the "system" that subverts good people, as McCain would have us believe. It is huberis, pride, greed, etc but the guilty are individuals. This is not a group crime.
This might not be a group crime but it is just one more sign of systemic failures. It may be that only Republicans are convicited in this case but neither party is innocent. They have both pulled the same stunts at one time or another. No longer does someone seek office to seek the betterment of the country or their community. These days people seek office for personal enrichment and power.
You obviously didn't read my post...especially the bold face portions.

Cronyism and Corruption make for a great Repug
I read your list, even the bold faced parts.
I just choose NOT to believe major media reports until they have been substantiated. There have been way too many false reports in the last 5-10 years for me to simply accept what they say.
I continue to wait for the evidence--this waiting for evidence also applies to democrats accused in the media. ( You know, the old " presumed innocent until proved guilty" thing)
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-05-2006, 02:59 AM
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RE: Abramaoff to plead guilty to corruption, other charges

JimSmith - 1/4/2006 11:56 PM

430 - 1/4/2006 1:24 PM

Shane - 1/4/2006 12:59 AM

Set an example. It is time people pay more attention to the crooks in charge.
Absolutley. But it should not stop with punishment. The laws need to be changed to help get as much money as possible out of the political process. Too many lobbists making too much money, too many favors for special interest groups, to much port in the budget to help or reward contributers.
I have to agree with this one, 430. Lobbying is patently anti-ethical. All of it. It seems to work, which is all the evidence anyone needs to conclude lobbying and PACs and other similar means to pass legislators money to influence their official actions should be illegal - since these means work by passing money gathered from groups with interests that likely are not aligned with the general welfare and interests of the country as a whole, to lawmakers to influence them to act in favor of these selfish interests that they might otherwise not favor. How much clearer do these trails of money and bad legislation have to be?

I think this is just another argument for reducing the size and power of the federal government. Everyone is attracted to DC becasue of the concentration of power. Returning to a government where the powers not ascribed to the federal government are reserved to the State, ( rough version of Amendment X), would reduce the concentration of money there.
Yes, the same thing would happen at the State capitols, but since there are 50 of them, I think there would be less of a concentration.
The real way to get money out of politics ( McCain line) is to throw those people in jail who offer and accept the money. Reapply this remedy until no one offer or takes bribes.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-05-2006, 06:37 AM
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RE: Abramaoff to plead guilty to corruption, other charges

That Guy - 1/4/2006 12:57 PM

This puts a bit of a wrinkle into my bet with Az. Just to clarify, Az and I have a bet that Delay will be found guilty/innocent of the charges brought in the indictment by Ronnie Earle, so assuming the cases stay separate, the Abramoff thing has no bearing on our bet. However, I just read this:

"New disclosures by Abramoff could hurt DeLay's chances in a close congressional race already complicated by his indictment in Austin, Texas, on campaign-finance violations. On Jan. 3, the prosecutor in the Texas case subpoenaed records from Abramoff and his associates, which could merge the two (until now separate) DeLay scandals."


Soooooo if the 2 cases are merged, then how does that affect our wager for a 4 pack of wonderful bacon wrapped filets from Omaha Steak? Is it a push or will the bet merely be transferred to the new case and if he's guilty I win, innocent Az wins??

I believe we nominated Thrillkill as the arbiter so he can chime in if he wants.
I say if DeLay is convicted of the original charges placed by the original prosecutor, you win; even if it was helped along by emerging circumstances like this. Fair is fair and if DeLay is found guilty of those charges, it doesn't matter to me how they uproot the weed.

If Thrillkill differs, I'll do what he says.......why do I feel my steaks slipping away?[B)][:D]

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