Do you believe in God? - Page 10 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?
Yes, sure 37 64.91%
No, never 18 31.58%
Can't decide 2 3.51%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 08:45 AM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

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Tahloube - 12/25/2005 4:28 PM
And a fourth. Some people find evidence of some sort. A recent example is a physicist who was working on the subject of earth movement and came to the conclusion that earth at some point in the future will stop for a while and then alter its movement around its axis. Then he heard the hadith (= saying) of Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) that some day the sun will rise from the west. He converted to Islam immediately.

Evidence of some sort? Intermittent insanity once believed to be related to phases of the moon or some such is not what I call evidence.

In the U.S. we call it "witnessing." It seems that whenever a believer has a chance to "share the good news" it is done in the form of a story relating how "God worked in his/her life." And many of the storytellers truly believe that God sent this person or that person into their lives for one reason or another. But with 6.3 billion possibilities for human interaction on the planet is it not easy to think it is simply the occurence of random events?

Want proof? If a persons life becomes a train wreck and they have family and friends to help them through then they may thank God. But another person may find themselves without a support group and this is the person that you and I see on the street corners and highway off-ramps asking for help. No God there.

My final analysis is this:

God = People.
People = God.
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post #92 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 09:22 AM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

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starcar126 - 12/22/2005 7:07 PM

Since most of mankind feels a need to believe in some kind of god/gods, just pick one of the over 5,000 different religions of the world. Which one doesn't matter, they all accomplish the same thing. The feeling that some higher power is watching over you. Religion was created out of man's insecurity of himself. A comforting lie. Mass self delusion bought and sold. If believing in some god makes you feel secure, go for it. Some of us don't need to.
There is actually a pretty good psychological system that mirrors your assertions that was present by Alfred Adler, a student of Freud's, around the turn of the last century. He theorized that mankind needs a number of "useful fictions" in order to survive in this world - some that we strive for, like "freedom" and "justice", and some that are useful as constructs, like religion, for the reasons you specify. Adler represented the first big break with Freud, and in the end he seems to be the one who got a lot of it right, while Freud ends up looking like a sex-obsessed old wanker.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #93 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 01:00 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

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kvining - 12/27/2005 11:22 AM

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/22/2005 7:07 PM

Since most of mankind feels a need to believe in some kind of god/gods, just pick one of the over 5,000 different religions of the world. Which one doesn't matter, they all accomplish the same thing. The feeling that some higher power is watching over you. Religion was created out of man's insecurity of himself. A comforting lie. Mass self delusion bought and sold. If believing in some god makes you feel secure, go for it. Some of us don't need to.
There is actually a pretty good psychological system that mirrors your assertions that was present by Alfred Adler, a student of Freud's, around the turn of the last century. He theorized that mankind needs a number of "useful fictions" in order to survive in this world - some that we strive for, like "freedom" and "justice", and some that are useful as constructs, like religion, for the reasons you specify. Adler represented the first big break with Freud, and in the end he seems to be the one who got a lot of it right, while Freud ends up looking like a sex-obsessed old wanker.
Since the evolution of homo Sapiens (modern man), man has looked at himself and his environs with many questions, wanting sound understandable answers. An answer of, "I don't know, and I may never know why my world is the way it is" was unacceptable to him. Everthing needed a pat answer with nothing left questioned. Man naturally wanted to put this incomprehensible world into an order he could understand. Enter a comprehensible answer for everything not understood - god/gods.

There was a movie made years ago called, "The Gods Must Be Crazy" where someone throws a Coke bottle out of a plane and it lands in a primitive village. Yep, you guessed it, the villagers not being able to comprehend this object thought that this was a sign from their gods, and worshipped it.

Why do we believe in god/gods? Everything must fit into a box we think we can understand.
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post #94 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 02:47 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

German held over 'Chile torture'


A German doctor is in custody after allegedly admitting she tortured a number of children at Colonia Dignidad, a secretive religious colony in Chile.

Gisela Seewald, 75, is said to have told a judge that she gave them electroshock treatment and sedatives.

She was ordered to do so by the group's ex-leader, Paul Schaefer, who said they were possessed, she reportedly said.

Mr Schaefer is in jail charged with child abuse and aiding secret police during the 1973-1990 military regime.

A former Nazi and Baptist preacher, he established the 13,000-hectare (32,000-acre) colony in southern Chile in 1961, after fleeing Germany to escape child abuse charges.

Five days

It is alleged that the treatments were applied to teenagers who disobeyed adults or showed interest in the opposite sex.


Commune leader Paul Schaefer was arrested in March

The judge has five days to file charges against Mrs Seewald.

Mrs Seewald arrived in Colonia Dignidad in 1963, two years after Mr Schaefer and her husband, Dr Gerd Seewald.

She was head of the commune's hospital between 1975 and 1978.

Mr and Mrs Seewald still live in the enclave, now known as Villa Baviera, which was taken over by the Chilean authorities earlier this year.

As well as abuses against the commune's residents - most of whom are believed to have been held there against their will - the judge is investigating the possibility that arms trafficking and human rights abuses took place under Mr Schaefer's leadership.


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post #95 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Do you believe in God?

If "I don't know, and I may never know why my world is the way it is" was unacceptable to pre-historic man, why would it be accepatble to 21st-century man?!

If there was a system that provides answers without contradicting itself and challenges human intellect to find a single 'mistake' in its scripture, then why reject it?

If this system is universal, simple, crystal-clear, no secrecy, no original sin and works wonders when put into practice, why ignore it?

This very system is more than 1400 years old, was brought to humans by an illeterate man who claims no divinity for himself, but calls for the worship of the Creator of the world Who knows well His creations and what best governs every possible aspect of their lives. This sytem satnds the test of time and never ceases to impress, from the Arabs who were stunned by the neither-poetry-nor-prose Words of the Quran , to millions of people voluntarily adopting a life style dictated by it, to modern-day discoveries that reaffirm facts humans first heard of 14 centuries ago and sometimes never fully understood until science, as we know it today, explained/proved it.

All I'm trying to say is.. most of you don't seem the shallow, reluctant-to-read type. So, why not read about Islam, the fastest growing religion (in number of followers), the one religion that attracts intellectuals from all corners of the globe, whose holy book was never changed, not a single word changed, and is still read the way it was read 14 centuries ago, and the religion that never under-valued human intellect, to the contrary, has always asked believers and disbeleivers to look and think.
It's worth it.
For those who are still not convinced after reading, they wouldn't have wasted their time. They'll know more about the 'enemy' than before.




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post #96 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 03:31 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

Quote:
Tahloube - 12/27/2005 3:23 PM

All I'm trying to say is.. most of you don't seem the shallow, reluctant-to-read type. So, why not read about Islam, the fastest growing religion (in number of followers), the one religion that attracts intellectuals from all corners of the globe, whose holy book was never changed, not a single word changed, and is still read the way it was read 14 centuries ago, and the religion that never under-valued human intellect, to the contrary, has always asked believers and disbeleivers to look and think.
It's worth it.
For those who are still not convinced after reading, they wouldn't have wasted their time. They'll know more about the 'enemy' than before.
Have you read The Tripitaka?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #97 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 03:46 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

I'm high on Christ - Jesus, am I loaded!

"Someday you will die somehow and something's gonna steal your carbon."
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post #98 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 04:29 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

Quote:
Tahloube - 12/28/2005 10:23 PM

If "I don't know, and I may never know why my world is the way it is" was unacceptable to pre-historic man, why would it be accepatble to 21st-century man?!

If there was a system that provides answers without contradicting itself and challenges human intellect to find a single 'mistake' in its scripture, then why reject it?

If this system is universal, simple, crystal-clear, no secrecy, no original sin and works wonders when put into practice, why ignore it?

This very system is more than 1400 years old, was brought to humans by an illeterate man who claims no divinity for himself, but calls for the worship of the Creator of the world Who knows well His creations and what best governs every possible aspect of their lives. This sytem satnds the test of time and never ceases to impress, from the Arabs who were stunned by the neither-poetry-nor-prose Words of the Quran , to millions of people voluntarily adopting a life style dictated by it, to modern-day discoveries that reaffirm facts humans first heard of 14 centuries ago and sometimes never fully understood until science, as we know it today, explained/proved it.

All I'm trying to say is.. most of you don't seem the shallow, reluctant-to-read type. So, why not read about Islam, the fastest growing religion (in number of followers), the one religion that attracts intellectuals from all corners of the globe, whose holy book was never changed, not a single word changed, and is still read the way it was read 14 centuries ago, and the religion that never under-valued human intellect, to the contrary, has always asked believers and disbeleivers to look and think.
It's worth it.
For those who are still not convinced after reading, they wouldn't have wasted their time. They'll know more about the 'enemy' than before.



I have read, in depth, about Islam - original sources, critiques and commentaries. To be perfectly honest I find it morally vacuous, violent from the beginning, intrinsically political like no other religion, a totalitarian repressive monolith without parallel, profoundly anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, misogynistic, and a committed enemy of virtually every hard fought for human right and freedom non-muslims hold dear. Islam originated in violence, was spread by violence and is maintained by violence (leaving Islam is not allowed - the penalty is death). It now threatens the non-muslim world like never before. The mass immigration of muslims into Europe is creating unparalled social conflict because, like no other ethnic group, they will not integrate. Muslim demands and political agitation to limit freedom of expression and implement sharia are increasing. Violence from within e.g. London massacre in July will most likely grow. Like our muslim friend doing his obligitory da'wa to earn religious brownie points, I also strongly encourage everyone to read about Islam and become informed. And finally, a word of advice - muslims are allowed to lie if it helps Islam, so beware greeks bearing gifts.
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post #99 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 08:01 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

Quote:
kvining - 12/27/2005 4:22 PM

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/22/2005 7:07 PM

Since most of mankind feels a need to believe in some kind of god/gods, just pick one of the over 5,000 different religions of the world. Which one doesn't matter, they all accomplish the same thing. The feeling that some higher power is watching over you. Religion was created out of man's insecurity of himself. A comforting lie. Mass self delusion bought and sold. If believing in some god makes you feel secure, go for it. Some of us don't need to.
There is actually a pretty good psychological system that mirrors your assertions that was present by Alfred Adler, a student of Freud's, around the turn of the last century. He theorized that mankind needs a number of "useful fictions" in order to survive in this world - some that we strive for, like "freedom" and "justice", and some that are useful as constructs, like religion, for the reasons you specify. Adler represented the first big break with Freud, and in the end he seems to be the one who got a lot of it right, while Freud ends up looking like a sex-obsessed old wanker.
Adler's view is also concordant with the notion that monotheism is merely a cosmic projection of our ancient biological need for approval from the Alpha Male.
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post #100 of 133 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 09:35 PM
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RE: Do you believe in God?

Quote:
jjl - 12/27/2005 10:01 PM

Quote:
kvining - 12/27/2005 4:22 PM

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/22/2005 7:07 PM

Since most of mankind feels a need to believe in some kind of god/gods, just pick one of the over 5,000 different religions of the world. Which one doesn't matter, they all accomplish the same thing. The feeling that some higher power is watching over you. Religion was created out of man's insecurity of himself. A comforting lie. Mass self delusion bought and sold. If believing in some god makes you feel secure, go for it. Some of us don't need to.
There is actually a pretty good psychological system that mirrors your assertions that was present by Alfred Adler, a student of Freud's, around the turn of the last century. He theorized that mankind needs a number of "useful fictions" in order to survive in this world - some that we strive for, like "freedom" and "justice", and some that are useful as constructs, like religion, for the reasons you specify. Adler represented the first big break with Freud, and in the end he seems to be the one who got a lot of it right, while Freud ends up looking like a sex-obsessed old wanker.
Adler's view is also concordant with the notion that monotheism is merely a cosmic projection of our ancient biological need for approval from the Alpha Male.
If you need my approval for peace of mind, jjl, you have it..........now send me money.

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