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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-20-2005, 12:05 PM
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RE: What is "morality"?

to answer the initial question..

i dont make life hard for others, that is my idea of morality. if i can help, i do. if i cant...i still do. ive never hurt anyone intentionally.

my belief system(surrounding this issue) is christian in flavor, what more can be expected from a white boy? i wasnt raised in the church, but the core is still there, as much as i try and argue with it. ive decided as an adult, with a modicum of inner argument, that agnosticism is my flavor of choice. ive never seen proof of either side being right on that particular issue.

to address the universal truth tangent spoken of: there is only one universal truth. in ALL societies of ALL types and of ALL religious affiliations and that is one of incest taboo. its true of higher mammals in general, not just humans.

this is all coming from a nonviolent boy who, if staring down the barrel of a gun, would most likely spout off at the mouth and not make it to the next day[:)] dont take it for fact, please.

This signature removed to protect the innocent.
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-20-2005, 09:27 PM
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RE: What is "morality"?

Conformity to ideals of right human conduct.

Right and wrong?

It's no mystery what helps people, and what hurts them.

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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-20-2005, 10:46 PM
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RE: What is "morality"?

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/20/2005 12:39 PM

Morality is a human illusion that doesn't exist.
Wishful thinking doesn't change reality.

The "so called" moral people (religious) have killed
more people than anyone else in history. Religion is like a drug that alters true reality to the user. Any alteration of the truth is a lie.
My, what a nihilistic point of view. Do you know the truth, sage?

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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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RE: What is "morality"?

Doesn't sage belong in the kitchen?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 10:55 AM
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RE: What is "morality"?

Morals do not require religion, but I would argue that the obverse is required.

Morals are the social rules of a culture. Most laws are based on motality but morals are not based on law. Hence, civil disobedience.

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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 11:15 AM
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RE: What is "morality"?

Quote:
ThrillKill - 12/21/2005 12:46 AM

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/20/2005 12:39 PM

Morality is a human illusion that doesn't exist.
Wishful thinking doesn't change reality.

The "so called" moral people (religious) have killed
more people than anyone else in history. Religion is like a drug that alters true reality to the user. Any alteration of the truth is a lie.
My, what a nihilistic point of view. Do you know the truth, sage?
Yes grasshopper, I do. My contract rate is $60.00 an hour. How enlightened do you want to be?
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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 11:18 AM
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RE: What is "morality"?

mo·ral·i·ty
The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
Virtuous conduct.
A rule or lesson in moral conduct.

So one can assume without the adjective Christian or religious etcetra there is indeed morality without religion but then who sets the standards?

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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 11:26 AM
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RE: What is "morality"?

Quote:
ThrillKill - 12/21/2005 1:18 PM

mo·ral·i·ty
The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
Virtuous conduct.
A rule or lesson in moral conduct.

So one can assume without the adjective Christian or religious etcetra there is indeed morality without religion but then who sets the standards?
It is a function of culture. It is perhaps the single most important definition of culture--a shared system of behavioral norms.

IMO, religion grows from long-term acceptance of a set of cultural norms--people worship the rules.

Folks of religious persuasion argue the exact opposite. Read the story of Moses. Prior to God's Law the people didn't know how to act.

etc.

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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 11:34 AM
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RE: What is "morality"?

Quote:
Botnst - 12/21/2005 12:26 PM

Quote:
ThrillKill - 12/21/2005 1:18 PM

mo·ral·i·ty
The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
Virtuous conduct.
A rule or lesson in moral conduct.

So one can assume without the adjective Christian or religious etcetra there is indeed morality without religion but then who sets the standards?
It is a function of culture. It is perhaps the single most important definition of culture--a shared system of behavioral norms.

IMO, religion grows from long-term acceptance of a set of cultural norms--people worship the rules.

Folks of religious persuasion argue the exact opposite. Read the story of Moses. Prior to God's Law the people didn't know how to act.

etc.

Bot
Well, was it moral for South American tribes to decapitate and shrink adversaries heads or is it moral for us to even eat meat? On a global scale it would be impossible to indoctrinate a standard set of morals so we are left with ones own personal ideals and rules of conduct. Scary.

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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-21-2005, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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RE: What is "morality"?

Quote:
Botnst - 12/21/2005 11:26 AM

It is a function of culture. It is perhaps the single most important definition of culture--a shared system of behavioral norms.

IMO, religion grows from long-term acceptance of a set of cultural norms--people worship the rules.

Folks of religious persuasion argue the exact opposite. Read the story of Moses. Prior to God's Law the people didn't know how to act.

etc.

Bot
Actually the story of Moses is a great example of a character flaw (so to speak) of Western religion. Morality in general provides a behavioral template for society. I contend that that template should be a positive one -- be kind, be humble, do unto others, etc. Western religion takes a different approach, preferring to focus on the negative. The ten commandments don't supply a template for moral behavior, rather it serves as a list of "don'ts" -- a very different thing. Only one of the ten commandments is actually a positive. The reason seems simple: promoting positives is not nearly as effective a control measure as drawing lines in the sand. Ultimately, positive reinforcement is a more valuable teaching tool in regard to our children and pets than negative reinforcement. Why then, does the morality of the OT in particular, immerse itself in negative reinforcement? I believe it has to do with defining "the enemy" -- the ultimate mechanism of empowerment.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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