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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 06:27 AM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

One question, sorry if it's thought provoking.

If New Orleans and Katrina response is all the Federal Government's fault, then why did Gulfport, MS (which was hit just as bad) and Alabama act like a well oiled machine when it came to disaster relief??
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 08:26 AM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
cmitchprint - 12/19/2005 6:27 AM

One question, sorry if it's thought provoking.

If New Orleans and Katrina response is all the Federal Government's fault, then why did Gulfport, MS (which was hit just as bad) and Alabama act like a well oiled machine when it came to disaster relief??
Gee, maybe because they aren't below sea level?

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
Botnst - 12/18/2005 8:43 PM

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/18/2005 6:33 PM

If anyone is to blame, look at the Mayor of New
Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana. Why didn't they
help their own people? No, blame it on the federal
government. Will this happen again? What do you think? They're "rebuilding" on ground that should never had a city there in the first place. If you don't learn from your mistakes, you're bound to repeat them. That's fine, I just don't want to finance this stupid "rebuild" over and over and over again.
People should not be allowed to live in areas prone to natural disasters if they get federal support in rebuilding, right? ....Bot
I wouldn't call New Orleans "prone" to flooding, from an engineering stand point, it's a ridiculous place to
rebuild a city (below sea level) considering the astronomical costs involved (buildings, streets and dams) and considering the likely possibility of this happening again. Learning from your mistakes moves you forward not sideways.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 12:16 PM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
Botnst - 12/18/2005 11:10 AM

The National Guard is under the command of the governor, not the president. We have this posse comitatus thingy, you see. In which we don't use federal troops for law enforcement and such without the direct invitation of the governor. My governor, for whom I voted.

She is a bright, hard-working and goodhearted person. I believe she is honest and wants to do what is right. But she definitely screwed-up with the hurricane response. She should have mobilized the NG BEFORE the hurricane and had them rally OUTSIDE of NOLA for immediate deployment. She should have requested federalization on Friday before the storm to let the feds gear-up in advance rather than on Saturday night, placing a 2-day response time post-storm minimum, on the federal response. That pushes the first response from federal authorities (had they been minimally competent) back to Wednesday after the storm. The federal agencies were not competent to the storm that destroyed an area the size of England.

And lets also mention the local gov, the key to first responders. It appears that the police department was carrying a couple hundred people on the payroll taht do not exist. Never have existed. At first folks thought that they all were cowards and ran. Some did but actually it maybe that most never existed. Talk about corruption, where did all that HS money go? Welcome to NOLA.

Bot
Most of what you assert here is demonstrably false. The US government has broad rights to assert authority in any disaster, and in the case of Katrina, their response was to do nothing. Most of us know the reason for this was idealogical, not logistical - buttfuck Brownie was a Bush ideologue who choose to do nothing to prove that "Faith-Based" organizations should be the frontline in a disaster, and that a federal response was unnecessary because all dem good Christians would save us all. In the end, their "Faith-based" hurricane destroyed their crediblity along with the city of New Orleans. Without a doubt, it has done more good for the Democratic cause than a million speeches by a thousand politicians, by showing the moral bankruptcy of Bushism. You continue to give to the cause by continuing the ridiculous assertion that a thousand people had to die due to bueareucratic red tape that your political pals were somehow powerless to untangle. Like WMDs, it was all just a mistake. It couldn't be helped. I love you guys for being so damned stupid. Thanks.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 03:40 PM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
Shabah - 12/18/2005 1:06 PM

Quote:
430 - 12/18/2005 1:02 PM

I have not been to NO sense Katrina so all I can relate is from friends that have been there to help and people that have friends from NO that have relocated.

Here are some of the experiences I have had related to me.

1 -- There are a number of stores & restaurants in NO that can only stay open limited hours due to lack of help. Yet we have all these people sitting around down there getting handouts. Why aren't they stepping up and accepting one of these $10 and hour jobs that require no skills or education?
Do you agree that you have a social problem in your hands? So my point is that before your impose your democracy on other nations, please take care of your problems and show to the world that you can at least handle it...

Quote:
430 - 12/18/2005 1:02 PM

2 -- There are a couple of families that have relocated to Atlanta. These families have a house that FEMA is paying the rent on for another year. They have had the houses furnished with donated furniture and clothes. These same families now have jobs making more money than they ever have in the past. If they have good jobs (their words to describe their current jobs not mine) why are the tax payers still paying for their rent?
Again, who's to blame when you have a dysfunctional system?
Yes we have problems. No one (well no one with an IQ) has ever claimed the US is perfect. While we have problems I would say that we have no more than any other country and fewer than a vast majority.

So with your logic then I personally should never help anyone or offer advice because I am not perfect?

I also guess the US should stop all foreign & humanitarian aid. I mean look at our deficient and the number of people in our country that are poor. Clearly we are unable to manage our own society or our money.

As for who is to blame it is US citizens.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 04:00 PM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
430 - 12/19/2005 5:40 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 12/18/2005 1:06 PM

Quote:
430 - 12/18/2005 1:02 PM

I have not been to NO sense Katrina so all I can relate is from friends that have been there to help and people that have friends from NO that have relocated.

Here are some of the experiences I have had related to me.

1 -- There are a number of stores & restaurants in NO that can only stay open limited hours due to lack of help. Yet we have all these people sitting around down there getting handouts. Why aren't they stepping up and accepting one of these $10 and hour jobs that require no skills or education?
Do you agree that you have a social problem in your hands? So my point is that before your impose your democracy on other nations, please take care of your problems and show to the world that you can at least handle it...

Quote:
430 - 12/18/2005 1:02 PM

2 -- There are a couple of families that have relocated to Atlanta. These families have a house that FEMA is paying the rent on for another year. They have had the houses furnished with donated furniture and clothes. These same families now have jobs making more money than they ever have in the past. If they have good jobs (their words to describe their current jobs not mine) why are the tax payers still paying for their rent?
Again, who's to blame when you have a dysfunctional system?
Yes we have problems. No one (well no one with an IQ) has ever claimed the US is perfect. While we have problems I would say that we have no more than any other country and fewer than a vast majority.

So with your logic then I personally should never help anyone or offer advice because I am not perfect?

I also guess the US should stop all foreign & humanitarian aid. I mean look at our deficient and the number of people in our country that are poor. Clearly we are unable to manage our own society or our money.

As for who is to blame it is US citizens.
I agree with this 100000% : "I also guess the US should stop all foreign & humanitarian aid. "

Please stop the insanity...
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 04:03 PM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/19/2005 1:58 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 12/18/2005 8:43 PM

Quote:
starcar126 - 12/18/2005 6:33 PM

If anyone is to blame, look at the Mayor of New
Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana. Why didn't they
help their own people? No, blame it on the federal
government. Will this happen again? What do you think? They're "rebuilding" on ground that should never had a city there in the first place. If you don't learn from your mistakes, you're bound to repeat them. That's fine, I just don't want to finance this stupid "rebuild" over and over and over again.
People should not be allowed to live in areas prone to natural disasters if they get federal support in rebuilding, right? ....Bot
I wouldn't call New Orleans "prone" to flooding, from an engineering stand point, it's a ridiculous place to
rebuild a city (below sea level) considering the astronomical costs involved (buildings, streets and dams) and considering the likely possibility of this happening again. Learning from your mistakes moves you forward not sideways.
I don't think federal dollars should be spent there except on federal facilities like the NAS. I'm opposed to federal subsidies for folks who live in wetlands of any sort--aka federal flood insurance.

I don't think that the fed should pay for the rebuilding of anything other than fed property. Let the good people of Louisiana live where they wish and let them pay their own way.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 04:10 PM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Quote:
kvining - 12/19/2005 2:16 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 12/18/2005 11:10 AM

The National Guard is under the command of the governor, not the president. We have this posse comitatus thingy, you see. In which we don't use federal troops for law enforcement and such without the direct invitation of the governor. My governor, for whom I voted.

She is a bright, hard-working and goodhearted person. I believe she is honest and wants to do what is right. But she definitely screwed-up with the hurricane response. She should have mobilized the NG BEFORE the hurricane and had them rally OUTSIDE of NOLA for immediate deployment. She should have requested federalization on Friday before the storm to let the feds gear-up in advance rather than on Saturday night, placing a 2-day response time post-storm minimum, on the federal response. That pushes the first response from federal authorities (had they been minimally competent) back to Wednesday after the storm. The federal agencies were not competent to the storm that destroyed an area the size of England.

And lets also mention the local gov, the key to first responders. It appears that the police department was carrying a couple hundred people on the payroll taht do not exist. Never have existed. At first folks thought that they all were cowards and ran. Some did but actually it maybe that most never existed. Talk about corruption, where did all that HS money go? Welcome to NOLA.

Bot
Most of what you assert here is demonstrably false. The US government has broad rights to assert authority in any disaster, and in the case of Katrina, their response was to do nothing. Most of us know the reason for this was idealogical, not logistical - buttfuck Brownie was a Bush ideologue who choose to do nothing to prove that "Faith-Based" organizations should be the frontline in a disaster, and that a federal response was unnecessary because all dem good Christians would save us all. In the end, their "Faith-based" hurricane destroyed their crediblity along with the city of New Orleans. Without a doubt, it has done more good for the Democratic cause than a million speeches by a thousand politicians, by showing the moral bankruptcy of Bushism. You continue to give to the cause by continuing the ridiculous assertion that a thousand people had to die due to bueareucratic red tape that your political pals were somehow powerless to untangle. Like WMDs, it was all just a mistake. It couldn't be helped. I love you guys for being so damned stupid. Thanks.
Could you perhaps eliminate or reduce the unfortunate pejoratives and return with something a bit more objective for discussion?

I was there. I saw it. I worked it. I didn't get it from some website or newspaper or TV show, most of which turned-out to have been astonishingly wrong in almost every aspect of the flood, its causes, its effects and its long-term consequences.

You cannot help but accuse me of something, even if you have no evidence. For you an accusation is proof of guilt.

I defy you to indicate where I said a thousand people had to die, for whatever reason. If you actually take the time to read what I wrote and are capable of understanding it, you might note that I indicated that every level of government failed the citizens of Louisiana and Mississippi. IMO they are still failing at every level.

You unfortunate cretin. For you, it appears that everything is an opportunity to score some dumb-fuck political points. Even the deaths of thousands of innocent Americans--yet another opportunity. You're a pitiful freak.

B
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 08:55 PM
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RE: Why do these people feel entitled for us to buy their "new life"?

Hey, Bot...

I hope you were not expecting an immediate reply to your last post... It takes a good while to find something to cut-and-paste as a reply... All those sources to look thru take a while to half-way read!

RM Smith www.rmsmithco.com

Where is it again that we are going... And why are we in a handbasket?
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