Were we lied into the Iraq War? - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: Were we lied into the Iraq War?
Yes 2,631 99.28%
No 16 0.60%
Maybe 3 0.11%
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post #71 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 03:07 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

How about this one: http://www.odci.gov/nic/articles_iraq_wmd.htm ???

It says in it: " Estimate was approved for publication, and still believe now, that we were on solid ground in how we reached the judgments we made."

and this one: "I remain convinced that no reasonable person could have viewed the totality of the information that the Intelligence Community had at its disposal—literally millions of pages—and reached any conclusions or alternative views that were profoundly different from those that we reached."

Wow so far so good I like reasonable people only if they are competent....

AND THAT'S MY FRIGGIN POINT CHIP...

Please feel free to counter what I have put here and show me again where I lied, insulted or have been a moron like you said... SHOW ME
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post #72 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 09:31 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 4:36 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 4:00 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 3:03 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:51 PM


"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?


No my point was clear from the beginning... The Iraqi said there was no WMD and that they had complied and had agreed that the UN does its job...
The bottom line, that does not count because you believe that the UN is less credible than Caligula...
Your point was not clear because you got nothing to stand on...So just because I called your emperor for what he is you got offended? Maybe you think I don't have the right to criticize your president because I am an "Arab"? is that it? The fact that he dictates orders that effect's me, my land and even where I should take a dump is none of my business is simply another form of arrogance from your part. DO YOU THINK I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CRITISIZE YOUR PRESIDENT? Just answer this question and I am done, that's all...



Wrong. Iraq didn't comply. Frankly we still don't know where the unnaccounted WMDs went.
The UN never said Iraq had complied. In fact that was the whole point of UN chapter 7 resolution 242.
Again, Iraq didn't comply with their disarmament responsibilities. The disagreement in the UN had to with how to deal with the noncompliance.
You are twisting the facts. First of all, I said Iraq complied that the UN will do it's job not that they have complied with any resolution. Your boys did not want to give them time because it would have deflated their momentum...
Note: resolution 242 is under chapter 6 not 7.....
Resolution 242 was intended for Israel to withdraw from occupied territories. Chapter 7 has as its heading 'Action with respect to threats to the peace, breaches of the peace, and acts of aggression'.

Edit: Source: http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter7.htm
Just in case you want to make up some other resolution... next time get your facts straight then come back to show off....


Sorry my bad I meant UN resolution 1441.
That is chapter 7 and Iraq did not comply, along with a host of other UN chapter 7 resolutions.
These are binding unlike my misquoted 242.







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post #73 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 09:35 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 11:31 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 4:36 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 4:00 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 3:03 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:51 PM


"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?


No my point was clear from the beginning... The Iraqi said there was no WMD and that they had complied and had agreed that the UN does its job...
The bottom line, that does not count because you believe that the UN is less credible than Caligula...
Your point was not clear because you got nothing to stand on...So just because I called your emperor for what he is you got offended? Maybe you think I don't have the right to criticize your president because I am an "Arab"? is that it? The fact that he dictates orders that effect's me, my land and even where I should take a dump is none of my business is simply another form of arrogance from your part. DO YOU THINK I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CRITISIZE YOUR PRESIDENT? Just answer this question and I am done, that's all...



Wrong. Iraq didn't comply. Frankly we still don't know where the unnaccounted WMDs went.
The UN never said Iraq had complied. In fact that was the whole point of UN chapter 7 resolution 242.
Again, Iraq didn't comply with their disarmament responsibilities. The disagreement in the UN had to with how to deal with the noncompliance.
You are twisting the facts. First of all, I said Iraq complied that the UN will do it's job not that they have complied with any resolution. Your boys did not want to give them time because it would have deflated their momentum...
Note: resolution 242 is under chapter 6 not 7.....
Resolution 242 was intended for Israel to withdraw from occupied territories. Chapter 7 has as its heading 'Action with respect to threats to the peace, breaches of the peace, and acts of aggression'.

Edit: Source: http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter7.htm
Just in case you want to make up some other resolution... next time get your facts straight then come back to show off....


Sorry my bad I meant UN resolution 1441.
That is chapter 7 and Iraq did not comply, along with a host of other UN chapter 7 resolutions.
These are binding unlike my misquoted 242.






That's cool...
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post #74 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 09:38 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 4:55 PM

Here is an article to give you some ideas:
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/wmd-report-buried

notice this quote: "Iraq's failure to comply with Security Council resolutions, and its alleged failure to reveal information concerning weapons of mass destruction, were among the top reasons given by the US as justifications for invading Iraq." This is what's called a driver...

Remember Hans Blix?: "Dr. Hans Blix, former head of the UN's hunt for chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, has warned against "another epidemic of spin" by the US and UK on the heels of the Kay report. Commenting to The Independent newspaper, Blix said that nothing found by the Iraq Survey Group validated the "serious and current threat" presented by the US and UK before going to war."

How about this comment: "US efforts to secure oil wells were far more intensive than those to protect the IAEA-monitored nuclear facility, which went unguarded in the immediate aftermath of the invasion."

Of course this article must be full of shit since the source is Greenpeace, right?



Did you bother reading 1441? It is quite clear that it wasn't an open ended resolution with Hans Blix being the judge and jury. That was up to the security council members. The resolution states that there are "serious consequences" if Iraq didn't comply and that the burden of proof fell squarely on Iraq not the UN inspectors.
Iraq was still playing a game of hide and seek, read the Deulfer Report.

I know it's hard for you but Saddam Baathist thugs are gone. It truly is shameful isn't it?





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post #75 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 09:40 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

quote:Shabah - 12/19/2005 2:46 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:40 PM

quote:Shane - 12/19/2005 11:44 AM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 6:44 PM

quote:Shabah - 12/18/2005 7:42 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 7:38 PM

quote:jjl - 12/18/2005 7:29 PM

Hey Chip, what about the gratuitous 'moron' remark? I saw nothing in Shabah's satirical piece likening Bush to Caeser to warrant that.

Anyway, goodnight to y'all.




You thought that was "satirical"? I didn't. I thought it just hate filled bile and I responded in kind. Give me a substantive point and I won't be so harsh.



Ohhh like I am feeling the harshness and I am going to coward into a corner, gime a break Chip...
You wanted to attack because you thought you could and you are soooo justified. Please get down your arrogant pedestal and go back and read what I wrote and ponder of a minute about how you reacted... When you're done come back and throw more insults if they are warranted.
For now I got go, so I hope to respond in few hours....




There's nothing to ponder. That's the point.



Chip, I believe Fox News is on! Go for it!





Why don't you visit Michael Moore's website? It's probably right in line with your political leanings.



Figures you attack like that, you still did not clarify your point about the new Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus... I am waiting!




"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?

RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

quote:Shabah - 12/19/2005 2:46 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:40 PM

quote:Shane - 12/19/2005 11:44 AM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 6:44 PM

quote:Shabah - 12/18/2005 7:42 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 7:38 PM

quote:jjl - 12/18/2005 7:29 PM

Hey Chip, what about the gratuitous 'moron' remark? I saw nothing in Shabah's satirical piece likening Bush to Caeser to warrant that.

Anyway, goodnight to y'all.




You thought that was "satirical"? I didn't. I thought it just hate filled bile and I responded in kind. Give me a substantive point and I won't be so harsh.



Ohhh like I am feeling the harshness and I am going to coward into a corner, gime a break Chip...
You wanted to attack because you thought you could and you are soooo justified. Please get down your arrogant pedestal and go back and read what I wrote and ponder of a minute about how you reacted... When you're done come back and throw more insults if they are warranted.
For now I got go, so I hope to respond in few hours....




There's nothing to ponder. That's the point.



Chip, I believe Fox News is on! Go for it!





Why don't you visit Michael Moore's website? It's probably right in line with your political leanings.



Figures you attack like that, you still did not clarify your point about the new Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus... I am waiting!




"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?

RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

quote:Shabah - 12/19/2005 2:46 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:40 PM

quote:Shane - 12/19/2005 11:44 AM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 6:44 PM

quote:Shabah - 12/18/2005 7:42 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 7:38 PM

quote:jjl - 12/18/2005 7:29 PM

Hey Chip, what about the gratuitous 'moron' remark? I saw nothing in Shabah's satirical piece likening Bush to Caeser to warrant that.

Anyway, goodnight to y'all.




You thought that was "satirical"? I didn't. I thought it just hate filled bile and I responded in kind. Give me a substantive point and I won't be so harsh.



Ohhh like I am feeling the harshness and I am going to coward into a corner, gime a break Chip...
You wanted to attack because you thought you could and you are soooo justified. Please get down your arrogant pedestal and go back and read what I wrote and ponder of a minute about how you reacted... When you're done come back and throw more insults if they are warranted.
For now I got go, so I hope to respond in few hours....




There's nothing to ponder. That's the point.



Chip, I believe Fox News is on! Go for it!





Why don't you visit Michael Moore's website? It's probably right in line with your political leanings.



Figures you attack like that, you still did not clarify your point about the new Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus... I am waiting!




"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?

RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

quote:Shabah - 12/19/2005 2:46 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:40 PM

quote:Shane - 12/19/2005 11:44 AM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 6:44 PM

quote:Shabah - 12/18/2005 7:42 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 7:38 PM

quote:jjl - 12/18/2005 7:29 PM

Hey Chip, what about the gratuitous 'moron' remark? I saw nothing in Shabah's satirical piece likening Bush to Caeser to warrant that.

Anyway, goodnight to y'all.




You thought that was "satirical"? I didn't. I thought it just hate filled bile and I responded in kind. Give me a substantive point and I won't be so harsh.



Ohhh like I am feeling the harshness and I am going to coward into a corner, gime a break Chip...
You wanted to attack because you thought you could and you are soooo justified. Please get down your arrogant pedestal and go back and read what I wrote and ponder of a minute about how you reacted... When you're done come back and throw more insults if they are warranted.
For now I got go, so I hope to respond in few hours....




There's nothing to ponder. That's the point.



Chip, I believe Fox News is on! Go for it!





Why don't you visit Michael Moore's website? It's probably right in line with your political leanings.



Figures you attack like that, you still did not clarify your point about the new Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus... I am waiting!




"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?

RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

quote:Shabah - 12/19/2005 2:46 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/19/2005 2:40 PM

quote:Shane - 12/19/2005 11:44 AM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 6:44 PM

quote:Shabah - 12/18/2005 7:42 PM

quote:chiphomme - 12/18/2005 7:38 PM

quote:jjl - 12/18/2005 7:29 PM

Hey Chip, what about the gratuitous 'moron' remark? I saw nothing in Shabah's satirical piece likening Bush to Caeser to warrant that.

Anyway, goodnight to y'all.




You thought that was "satirical"? I didn't. I thought it just hate filled bile and I responded in kind. Give me a substantive point and I won't be so harsh.



Ohhh like I am feeling the harshness and I am going to coward into a corner, gime a break Chip...
You wanted to attack because you thought you could and you are soooo justified. Please get down your arrogant pedestal and go back and read what I wrote and ponder of a minute about how you reacted... When you're done come back and throw more insults if they are warranted.
For now I got go, so I hope to respond in few hours....




There's nothing to ponder. That's the point.



Chip, I believe Fox News is on! Go for it!





Why don't you visit Michael Moore's website? It's probably right in line with your political leanings.



Figures you attack like that, you still did not clarify your point about the new Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus... I am waiting!




"Figures you attack like that"? Do you point that out to everyone that trades insults? Or just the ones you'd don't like?


BTW, what clarification do you need? That you have no point other than to do what you just critcized me for, insult someone?

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post #76 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 09:46 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 11:38 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 4:55 PM

Here is an article to give you some ideas:
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/wmd-report-buried

notice this quote: "Iraq's failure to comply with Security Council resolutions, and its alleged failure to reveal information concerning weapons of mass destruction, were among the top reasons given by the US as justifications for invading Iraq." This is what's called a driver...

Remember Hans Blix?: "Dr. Hans Blix, former head of the UN's hunt for chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, has warned against "another epidemic of spin" by the US and UK on the heels of the Kay report. Commenting to The Independent newspaper, Blix said that nothing found by the Iraq Survey Group validated the "serious and current threat" presented by the US and UK before going to war."

How about this comment: "US efforts to secure oil wells were far more intensive than those to protect the IAEA-monitored nuclear facility, which went unguarded in the immediate aftermath of the invasion."

Of course this article must be full of shit since the source is Greenpeace, right?



Did you bother reading 1441? It is quite clear that it wasn't an open ended resolution with Hans Blix being the judge and jury. That was up to the security council members. The resolution states that there are "serious consequences" if Iraq didn't comply and that the burden of proof fell squarely on Iraq not the UN inspectors.
Iraq was still playing a game of hide and seek, read the Deulfer Report.

I know it's hard for you but Saddam Baathist thugs are gone. It truly is shameful isn't it?




First of all good riddance for the Baathists, I never defended them. My concern was the invasion of a sovereign nation either ruled by despots or whatever… So don’t go and put words in my mouth as if I am weeping for that asswhip…
What’s shameful is your administration lying to its people, to the world for the service of the few and powerful, is that hard to understand?
As to me reading the resolution, I don’t need to anymore, it’s too late what good is it when you did not let it be cycled like every resolution out there. Case in point how many resolutions are out there that are non-compliant? Where is the mighty force of the US applied for those? No siry, it only applies to what’s convenient and ripe…
Do you want me to list for you such resolution too? Just in case you think I am full of shit….
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post #77 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 09:54 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

Sure...
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post #78 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-19-2005, 10:01 PM
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RE: Were we lied into the Iraq War?

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 11:46 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 12/19/2005 11:38 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 12/19/2005 4:55 PM

Here is an article to give you some ideas:
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/wmd-report-buried

notice this quote: "Iraq's failure to comply with Security Council resolutions, and its alleged failure to reveal information concerning weapons of mass destruction, were among the top reasons given by the US as justifications for invading Iraq." This is what's called a driver...

Remember Hans Blix?: "Dr. Hans Blix, former head of the UN's hunt for chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, has warned against "another epidemic of spin" by the US and UK on the heels of the Kay report. Commenting to The Independent newspaper, Blix said that nothing found by the Iraq Survey Group validated the "serious and current threat" presented by the US and UK before going to war."

How about this comment: "US efforts to secure oil wells were far more intensive than those to protect the IAEA-monitored nuclear facility, which went unguarded in the immediate aftermath of the invasion."

Of course this article must be full of shit since the source is Greenpeace, right?



Did you bother reading 1441? It is quite clear that it wasn't an open ended resolution with Hans Blix being the judge and jury. That was up to the security council members. The resolution states that there are "serious consequences" if Iraq didn't comply and that the burden of proof fell squarely on Iraq not the UN inspectors.
Iraq was still playing a game of hide and seek, read the Deulfer Report.

I know it's hard for you but Saddam Baathist thugs are gone. It truly is shameful isn't it?




First of all good riddance for the Baathists, I never defended them. My concern was the invasion of a sovereign nation either ruled by despots or whatever… So don’t go and put words in my mouth as if I am weeping for that asswhip…
What’s shameful is your administration lying to its people, to the world for the service of the few and powerful, is that hard to understand?
As to me reading the resolution, I don’t need to anymore, it’s too late what good is it when you did not let it be cycled like every resolution out there. Case in point how many resolutions are out there that are non-compliant? Where is the mighty force of the US applied for those? No siry, it only applies to what’s convenient and ripe…
Do you want me to list for you such resolution too? Just in case you think I am full of shit….

There aren't many chapter 7 resolutions out there. That was my point when I had a brain fart and used the wrong number. It was binding (i.e. it had teeth).
And yes the US should go after countries that don't comply with such things. If not the UN is just a paper tiger (kind of like the embarrassing stuff happening in Sudan and what happened in Rwanda).
And Iraq wasn't a "sovereign" country like most other nations. It was basically a locked down country with the UN trying to force it to comply with its obligations laid out in 1991. The US and UK had to maintain two no fly zones to protect the majority of the Iraqi population (with almost daily bombings for twelve years) and a crippling sanctions regimen was implemented to force Saddam to abided (which of course he side stepped when the Oil for Food fiasco was started). Guess what? None of that stuff worked.
It was time to end Iraq’s misery and remove the despot.
As far as lying to the American people is concerned. The claim has taken a life of it’s own. There hasn’t been a single inquiry that has concluded GWB lied to the American people. It’s pretty damn hard to convince me after George Tenet admitted telling the Bush administration that WMD’s were a “slam dunk�.



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post #79 of 95 (permalink) Old 08-04-2007, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Aw ain't that cute! Now a lie is not a lie if it is just a mistake! Call the lawyers! We gonna get a shit load of losers off death row tonight!
Ahem......

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #80 of 95 (permalink) Old 08-04-2007, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kvining
Well, that explains a lot.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thats what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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