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post #71 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 08:25 PM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

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Marsden - 12/26/2005 10:15 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 12/26/2005 1:45 AM
I'd be willing to bet that ninety percent of the dross floating about this forum is motivated by covetousness for political power while disguised as real patriotic or humanitarian concern. just a hunch.
There are people on this forum who want to take over the government?

Who are they? Are they close to their goal? Are nominations permitted?
Perhaps I should have been more specific. There are those on this board who covet political power and satisfy that lust vicariously through their party's various victories.

There apparently is nothing as vexing as unquenched lust....


I nomintate 1hotbabe.

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post #72 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 08:35 PM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Again, who are these lustful and covetous people?

Personally, I think it's hot, you gettin all Old Testamant on us like this.
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post #73 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 08:44 PM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

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Marsden - 12/26/2005 10:35 PM

Again, who are these lustful and covetous people?

Personally, I think it's hot, you gettin all Old Testamant on us like this.
Perhaps I can lead you to answer your own question. Firstly, which political party is not represented in the white house and has a minority presence in the house and senate?

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post #74 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 07:24 AM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Quote:
Marsden - 12/26/2005 10:15 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 12/26/2005 1:45 AM
I'd be willing to bet that ninety percent of the dross floating about this forum is motivated by covetousness for political power while disguised as real patriotic or humanitarian concern. just a hunch.
There are people on this forum who want to take over the government?

Who are they? Are they close to their goal? Are nominations permitted?
It happens every 4 years, like it or not.

B
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post #75 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 09:39 AM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Quote:
azimuth - 12/9/2005 12:41 AM

You mean alleged torture victim. Mr Libi (sounds like a libby to me) claims to have been tortured while in Egyptian custody. A claim flatly denied by Egyptian officials.

That prisoners and terrorists are liars is not unusual. I find it rookie-esque to have relied on a prisoner's word as reason for war.....if that's what happened.

The NY times has a shady track record as far as I'm concerned, so who knows when they are being accurate and when they are disseminating propaganda?
The Egyptians routinely deny, and routinely torture. What do you think these guys are, choir boys? They work for one of the most repressive dictatorships on earth. Since they have become our buddies, they have become the official "torture shop" for the CIA.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #76 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 09:42 AM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Quote:
Botnst - 12/9/2005 9:24 AM

Quote:
BENZ REB - 12/9/2005 1:21 AM

Quote:
mzsmbs - 12/9/2005 1:17 AM
those pictures from abu ghraib must be from saddam era or just a figment of my imagination..
I loved the progression with Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.

1. Stories leaked out: "The stories are lies"

2. Photos began to surface: "The photos are doctored"

3. Videos made public: "Isolated incidents"

4. More videoes, photos, stories: "Anti-American Propaganda"

5. Finally, "We Don't Torture". Hey, it might fly, right?
if it's a patetrn, it must be true.

Doesn't matter that Abu Graib was proven in court to have been an abberration of a few poorly led noncoms.

Grassy knoll.

B
The only thing proven in court was the guilt of the parties involved in those incidents. Please spare us spin and mis-information.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #77 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 09:54 AM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Quote:
azimuth - 12/9/2005 11:09 AM

That KV and I agree about the flaccidness of the facts with which we invaded Iraq is maybe unusual for two antipodal politicos like us, but where we diverge is in whether the missteps taken were based on lies or blunders.

Either way, our solutions are wildly divergent. That's okay. He promised not to post anymore nude photos of TCP and me. I promised to remind him to wipe the foam from around his gob occasionally, so we are online friends..........I think[:p]
Actually, I have always found you to be a sensible man, and sensible men are in general coming around to agreement on some pretty uncomfortable facts about the Bush Administration. Sooner or later "lies" will become as obvious to you as it is for millions of other people. At the base of all of this, whether you are on the side of "lies" or "blunders" is the sinking, sickening feeling that Iraq did not have to be invaded, occuppied, and allowed to become a "nation building" hobby of the damned neo-cons at taxpayer expense. But once one admits that, that it is obvious at this point that Iraq did not have to be invaded. Well, once that point is granted, then why did we do so? Let's look at the past:

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2002/msg01206.html

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #78 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 10:52 AM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Blunder or blinders? At this point to me it would HAVE to be blinders.

DEFEND AMERICA
DEFEAT BUSH
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post #79 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-27-2005, 12:43 PM
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RE: Torture Victim "Invented" Iraq-Al Qaeda Link

Quote:
kvining - 12/27/2005 11:42 AM

Quote:
Botnst - 12/9/2005 9:24 AM

Quote:
BENZ REB - 12/9/2005 1:21 AM

Quote:
mzsmbs - 12/9/2005 1:17 AM
those pictures from abu ghraib must be from saddam era or just a figment of my imagination..
I loved the progression with Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.

1. Stories leaked out: "The stories are lies"

2. Photos began to surface: "The photos are doctored"

3. Videos made public: "Isolated incidents"

4. More videoes, photos, stories: "Anti-American Propaganda"

5. Finally, "We Don't Torture". Hey, it might fly, right?
if it's a patetrn, it must be true.

Doesn't matter that Abu Graib was proven in court to have been an abberration of a few poorly led noncoms.

Grassy knoll.

B
The only thing proven in court was the guilt of the parties involved in those incidents. Please spare us spin and mis-information.
And that is what we call proof of guilt, right? You assert that the courts martial deliberately ignored evidence of a greater conspiracy? Where's your evidence? I'm sure the defendants would love to have your testimony.

B
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