Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 09:38 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
kvining - 12/6/2005 4:04 PM

If you actually look into this thing deeply, read the Project For the New American Century docs, etc, it becomes obvious what the aims of this war were - it was not to control the oil, it was to control the faucet. The strip of land formed by Syria and Iraq is the most strategic piece of land in the world - it has been fought over for literally two thousand years because of it. During the 19th Century, the British and the French divided it between themselves to keep the balance of power in Europe between themselves. We decided to make a grab for it. Whoever controls that strip of land controls the flow of oil, east, west, north and south. A little twist of the faucet, and those who control it can make prices go up or down - up in off-election years, down during elections.

Look at what you get if you can pull it off- control of the world economy, and control of the American government and it's supreme military machine. This was a program of world conquest. Pull out a map and look at it - Syria and Iraq were created for this very reason - to prevent a unified Arab nation from controlling this piece of property, control of which would give it par with the US, Russia and China as world powers. It connects the med to Persian Gulf, and buffers the oil fields of Arabia, and splits the Muslim world in half. "Democracy" in Iraq? Only if it is our puppet.
Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916 following the fall of the Ottoman Empire in world war 1.


you can clearly see the cut of the boundries prior to the formation of Iraq and Syria, mostly along ethnic boundries. British and French are not stupid, they wanted them to get along. Now if you look at a current map and the boarders of Iraq and Syria...


Iraq is cut off from everyone else, forcing the sunni's, shiite's, and the kurds into one country. By not allowing them their own countries, which is what they really want, they keep the region divided and thus the middle east is not allowed to present a unified front.

I suspect KV, you're not far from the truth on this one...
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 05:20 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

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old300D - 12/6/2005 11:16 AM

Quote:
430 - 12/6/2005 8:38 AM

Quote:
Gregs300CD - 12/6/2005 10:37 AM

I’m just a pacified, mollified, stupefied US taxpayer, so my opinion doesn’t count, right?

I wish smoking could bring back 2200 US lives.

There was a reason for starting the war with Iraq. The reason had nothing to do with 9/11. The reason had nothing to do with “yellow cake�. The reason had nothing to do with decades old poison gas that was no longer even lethal. The reason had nothing to do with torture, murder, or wrongful imprisonment. It had nothing to do with “fighting them there so that we don’t have to fight them here.�

The rest of the world thinks it was all about oil.
I’m just telling you what the neighbors are saying about us.
If it was all about oil then where is my cheap oil? Let's keep the fields for ourselves.

People say lots of things, doesn't make it true.
You are forgetting that you never were the intended beneficiary of "cheap oil". It was the oil companies, and look now at their historic profits. From their perspective, it's all good.
My comments should have been taken as sarcastic, nothing more.

Being the capatilistic pig I am I have no problem with the profits the oil companies made.

If you don't like it are you doing your part? Trade in that Benz for a bike or an electric car. Stop giving those blood suckers any of your money.
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 07:24 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 5:20 PM
My comments should have been taken as sarcastic, nothing more.

Being the capatilistic pig I am I have no problem with the profits the oil companies made.

If you don't like it are you doing your part? Trade in that Benz for a bike or an electric car. Stop giving those blood suckers any of your money.
You apparently missed my signature. [8)]

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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 08:52 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
old300D - 12/7/2005 9:24 PM

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 5:20 PM
My comments should have been taken as sarcastic, nothing more.

Being the capatilistic pig I am I have no problem with the profits the oil companies made.

If you don't like it are you doing your part? Trade in that Benz for a bike or an electric car. Stop giving those blood suckers any of your money.
You apparently missed my signature. [8)]
ahhh. But I am willing to trade blood for oil.
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 08:58 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
NordStern - 12/6/2005 3:18 PM

Interesting discussion.

Gotta say I like your posts, kvining.

Why did the US attack Iraq? I think the oil price itself had little to do with that.


Lets pretend I have an oil well up here in Norway. I pump up some, and meet M'sieu Fries from Belgium. He want's to buy. The way it is now, I'll say, yeah sure, but I want payment in dollars. So m'sieu Fries has to go to the bank and buy some dollars. The money used to buy dollars will be hard earned Euros, which the americans all of a sudden has now. The real value just dumped into the dollar system, sort of.

There are vast amounts of dollars in europe, Japan, and the reat of the world. And vast deficits in the US. Right? If someone were to realize all the dollars, would he find them all?

Everybody who pumps oil, want's dollars for it. It's very practical, and just as beneficiary to the world as it is to the US. But then m'sieu Fries meets mr. Saddam, and he has actually switched his oil currency to euros. It would be tempting to not have to switch currency, huh?

I think the main reason for the war was to wrestle Iraqi oil back to mama dollar. And show potential copy cats where the kettle should hang.

American credibility is taking some heavy blows these days. Powells disastrous UN speech, "bad intelligence", Camp Delta and the way things are actually going, is depressing. Even the story of the capture of Saddam Hussein is totally false. I know who captured him, and how he was "traded" in to the americans. That story will seap out, eventually. I fear a lot of other skeletons hang in the closet, ready for a real singeling fallout.

I lived in the US in the sixties and seventies, and could never understand the hateful attacks I recieved on vacations in Norway. I mean, we were plegding our allegience, doing the all american regular things, with friendly neighbourhoods, barbeques, things were seemingly well. For me, the worst effects from the Vietnam war was some friends who had older brothers who were POW's. I can see clearly now.

One clear fact is that the US has traded a government that held a complicated country together with something resembling a total mess. One can say that Saddam was bad, his sons stunk, and things were bad. Things are not better at all now. Letting the Shias have a swing at Saddam in a potpourri court is very unwise. If the aim is to make things better.

To me, Bush/White House/Pentagon acts like the kid who takes daddy's car out for a night spin, crashing it, and not going home before it's fixed. No matter how hopeless it seems.

Oh wait, he went home. It's your kids that are still out there!





NordStern:
"Even the story of the capture of Saddam Hussein is totally false. I know who captured him, and how he was "traded" in to the americans. That story will seap out, eventually."
OK wise guy fess up...
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post #46 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 10:52 PM

Quote:
old300D - 12/7/2005 9:24 PM

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 5:20 PM
My comments should have been taken as sarcastic, nothing more.

Being the capatilistic pig I am I have no problem with the profits the oil companies made.

If you don't like it are you doing your part? Trade in that Benz for a bike or an electric car. Stop giving those blood suckers any of your money.
You apparently missed my signature. [8)]
ahhh. But I am willing to trade blood for oil.
I'm sure that is true. Why don't you do us all a favor, and trade your own kid's blood?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #47 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 09:56 AM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
kvining - 12/8/2005 10:12 AM

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 10:52 PM

Quote:
old300D - 12/7/2005 9:24 PM

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 5:20 PM
My comments should have been taken as sarcastic, nothing more.

Being the capatilistic pig I am I have no problem with the profits the oil companies made.

If you don't like it are you doing your part? Trade in that Benz for a bike or an electric car. Stop giving those blood suckers any of your money.
You apparently missed my signature. [8)]
ahhh. But I am willing to trade blood for oil.
I'm sure that is true. Why don't you do us all a favor, and trade your own kid's blood?
CORRECTION FOR 430:

"I am willing to trade anyone else's blood for oil."

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post #48 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 10:56 AM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

The reason sold to us by OUR PRESIDENT was that increased demand from India and China made the cost of gasoline double. Am I the only one who remembers this? Now, the price is only fifty cents above where it used to be before it started going up. ($2 from $1.50) Did demand go down?

It never had anything to do with supply. Only greed.

The oil companies charged double the usual price this last year, and it's claimed they spent 90 cents on each dollar produced? While there are record profits this year across the board? Something doesn't add up here. I think 90 cents is some of that creative math so popular today. Those poor oil companies must really be having a hard time making ends meet when they charge only $1.50! No wait, they were still swimming in money, weren't they?

It is not government's job to facilitate the oil industry's ability to make a profit (and rationalize it by telling the people that we are freeing the Iraqi people at the same time after not finding WMD's). We do not keep federal oil reserves as an industry subsidy program. The function of our government should be to help the people.

I'll bet at least 90 cents of every dollar spent seizing control of the Iraqi pumps was US tax money- not Haliburton's or any agent of the oil industry. We're being used.

And don't say that we're lucky compared to other countries who pay twice as much. They pay extra because of taxes. They're getting something when they pay out. Last year, the power elite just stole our health care.
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post #49 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 02:16 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 8:52 PM

Quote:
old300D - 12/7/2005 9:24 PM

Quote:
430 - 12/7/2005 5:20 PM
My comments should have been taken as sarcastic, nothing more.

Being the capatilistic pig I am I have no problem with the profits the oil companies made.

If you don't like it are you doing your part? Trade in that Benz for a bike or an electric car. Stop giving those blood suckers any of your money.
You apparently missed my signature. [8)]
ahhh. But I am willing to trade blood for oil.
What sort of an exchange rate will you suffer? One gallon of your blood for 1 barrel of crude? I don't think you could get through the winter.

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post #50 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 02:40 PM
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RE: Bush flat out lies in speech on Iraq

Hi Shabah.

In my home I have several chuncks of the mighty Berlin wall. How do I know they originate from die mauer? Because a buddy and I climed it by Brandenburger Tor in 1989 with sledge-hammers and banged away to a gigantic applause.(From the west side, that is) We did of course "mitnehmen" some. There may be a test method possible to determin if they are genuine, but for me and those who know me well, that is of no consequence.

If you replace the chuncks with my "knowlage" of Saddams capture, it's a little different. You would have to imagine that I went to the wall, met a guy with a "chunck" in his hand saying, yepp it's from the wall. And then take it home as an artefact. I didn't see him remove it from the actual wall, but since there was so much other debris evidentially deriving from the wall, why would he make the extra effort to trick me? What would the point be?

One could say, "what's the point of not grabbing it yourself while you're f***ing right there"? But hey, I'm trying to clearify here in a very complicated way.

Now, if I were to bring home such a stone and claim it to be genuine because I picked it out myself from the wall, that would be a lie. But it could still very well be genuine. In fact, it would be more probable that it's genuine than fake. Should I take the chunck home, telling everyone that I got from a bloke beside the wall, well you know, not really.

That's the way I feel about the intelligence I posses concerning the "master brain puzzle gathering" Red Dawn Saddam capture. I'm not ready to push that story. Reading the quoted post over, I feel those two sentences you quote were words in my mind not intended for print. Like our cat and my rabbits, they escaped. Again.

You might have read the facinating Saddam capture story on Debka file? Interesting reading. There are other stories too, but they all have an agenda. The official US version included. The thruth just might not have been told here.

When you want to successfully spread disinformation, you want as many correct ground pillars as possible, and just as much "dis" as necessary.

I must say right after the capture, when I read Rumsfelds description of Saddam as a coward, it made me feel sick. Wonder how many minutes he would last in a closed room with Saddam. I think one can truly say a lot of negative things about him, but a coward? It must be the dreaded camel-toe again.

Can anyone find out what medicine Bush uses? I want some of that too.



Regards

Geir

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