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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Clemency for Tookie Williams??

For those of you who don't know, Stanley "Tookie" Williams is scheduled to die on December 13 for murders he committed way back in 1979. He's been on death row at San Quentin since 1981 and his appeals, etc. have dried up. With one other guy, he co-founded the Crips gang in 1971 and he's tied to lots of violence over the years. However, he claims he's been rehabilitated and has in fact published several kid books aimed at steering kids away from gangs. He's not claiming he was wrongly incarcerated or sentenced, anything like that, just that his life should be spared because he can do some good if he's allowed to live.

While I realize that many folks are just plain dead set against the death penalty under any circumstances -- and I support your right to your opinion -- I'm mostly looking for opinions of those who typically support the death penalty on whether Mr. Williams should be granted clemency under these circumstances.

Personally I'm kind of on the fence about it; the survivors of the victims deserve the retribution granted them by the justice system through the valid verdict returned by the jury. Typically I would be against clemency just because the prisoner claims to be rehabilitated, but when s/he has confirmed that by doing things to demonstrate rehabilitation (such as Mr. Williams has here) then I start to think maybe there is a greater purpose to be served.

So with that prelude, what are your thoughts, folks?
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 01:43 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

I think that we should prolifically advertise that it is okay to kill people. As many as one wants.
After all, the killers are probably very decent people and probably have done some modicum of good in their lives.

The only thing, some prison time will be required. But the sooner they do good works and write fairy tales, knit doillies, take up ballet or floral arrangements, well, is this not evidence that they are good and gentle folk and should now be released to enjoy life with the rest of us?

Joe



Quote:
gregs210 - 11/26/2005 11:11 AM

For those of you who don't know, Stanley "Tookie" Williams is scheduled to die on December 13 for murders he committed way back in 1979. He's been on death row at San Quentin since 1981 and his appeals, etc. have dried up. With one other guy, he co-founded the Crips gang in 1971 and he's tied to lots of violence over the years. However, he claims he's been rehabilitated and has in fact published several kid books aimed at steering kids away from gangs. He's not claiming he was wrongly incarcerated or sentenced, anything like that, just that his life should be spared because he can do some good if he's allowed to live.

While I realize that many folks are just plain dead set against the death penalty under any circumstances -- and I support your right to your opinion -- I'm mostly looking for opinions of those who typically support the death penalty on whether Mr. Williams should be granted clemency under these circumstances.

Personally I'm kind of on the fence about it; the survivors of the victims deserve the retribution granted them by the justice system through the valid verdict returned by the jury. Typically I would be against clemency just because the prisoner claims to be rehabilitated, but when s/he has confirmed that by doing things to demonstrate rehabilitation (such as Mr. Williams has here) then I start to think maybe there is a greater purpose to be served.

So with that prelude, what are your thoughts, folks?
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 01:49 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

Let him die. Just because he wrote some books does not excess him for the murders that he committed. If he wrote books about flowers, do we think we would have this discussion?

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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 01:53 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

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tiggerfink - 11/26/2005 3:49 PM

Let him die. Just because he wrote some books does not excess him for the murders that he committed. If he wrote books about flowers, do we think we would have this discussion?
Hey, folks who write books about flowers are good.

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 01:53 PM
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Whos is Tookie Williams ??



Reference 1: http://savetookie.org/bio.html


Reference 2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tookie_Williams

"The Communists will defeat us, not by
virtue of their strength, but because
of our weakness. They will win by default."

Ngo Dinh Diem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem

<img src="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/honor/timeline/images/1954.jpg">

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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 01:54 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

Quote:
tiggerfink - 11/26/2005 3:49 PM

Let him die. Just because he wrote some books does not excess him for the murders that he committed. If he wrote books about flowers, do we think we would have this discussion?
The Yang family, who were immigrants from Taiwan, included the husband, Yen-Yi Yang, was 67 years old. The wife, Tsai-Shen Yang, was 63 years old. Their only child, Ye-Chen Lin, 43, had recently joined them from Taiwan. The family worked together operating and maintaining a motel. All three members of the Yang family were murdered by Stanley Williams March 11, 1979.

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virtue of their strength, but because
of our weakness. They will win by default."

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 01:55 PM
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RE: Whos is Tookie Williams ??

Quote:
Saigon76nyc - 11/26/2005 3:53 PM



Reference 1: http://savetookie.org/bio.html


Reference 2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tookie_Williams
He ran the Crips street gang. He was in charge. The boss.

Now he repudiates it all.

Did he repudiate it before he got busted or after?

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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 02:35 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

Quote:
jbleaux - 11/26/2005 2:43 PM

I think that we should prolifically advertise that it is okay to kill people. As many as one wants.
After all, the killers are probably very decent people and probably have done some modicum of good in their lives.

The only thing, some prison time will be required. But the sooner they do good works and write fairy tales, knit doillies, take up ballet or floral arrangements, well, is this not evidence that they are good and gentle folk and should now be released to enjoy life with the rest of us?

Joe
I partially agree. If you were to create a chart of naughty people who are incarcerated versus naughty people roaming the streets, I think you would be amazed to find that the freebirds outnumbered their counterparts by roughly 6 to 1.
So by eliminating the prison system altogether the crime rate would only escalate by a small margin and the money saved could be used to buy guns for good, Christian, decent folk like ourselves for self protection.
Jail just seems to make these fellas all the more unctuous.

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 04:34 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

PARTIALLY AGREE, THRILLKILL?

Are you serious? I can't believe you take my post about this scumbag seriously. The savage should be tortured or at least executed on national television during prime time.

You agree with my sarcastic post? DISGUSTING.

Joe

I find it humorous and petty and juvenile that you let my post about murderers survive yet, delete ones that you don't like. What a guy!

Yeah, I know, you were posting tongue-in-cheek, too, right?



Quote:
ThrillKill - 11/26/2005 3:35 PM

Quote:
jbleaux - 11/26/2005 2:43 PM

I think that we should prolifically advertise that it is okay to kill people. As many as one wants.
After all, the killers are probably very decent people and probably have done some modicum of good in their lives.

The only thing, some prison time will be required. But the sooner they do good works and write fairy tales, knit doillies, take up ballet or floral arrangements, well, is this not evidence that they are good and gentle folk and should now be released to enjoy life with the rest of us?

Joe
I partially agree. If you were to create a chart of naughty people who are incarcerated versus naughty people roaming the streets, I think you would be amazed to find that the freebirds outnumbered their counterparts by roughly 6 to 1.
So by eliminating the prison system altogether the crime rate would only escalate by a small margin and the money saved could be used to buy guns for good, Christian, decent folk like ourselves for self protection.
Jail just seems to make these fellas all the more unctuous.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 05:17 PM
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RE: Clemency for Tookie Williams??

Quote:
jbleaux - 11/26/2005 5:34 PM

PARTIALLY AGREE, THRILLKILL?

Are you serious? I can't believe you take my post about this scumbag seriously. The savage should be tortured or at least executed on national television during prime time.

You agree with my sarcastic post? DISGUSTING.

Joe

I find it humorous and petty and juvenile that you let my post about murderers survive yet, delete ones that you don't like. What a guy!

Yeah, I know, you were posting tongue-in-cheek, too, right?

Somebody's got a troll......

This is your own fault TK--you brought Mr. Bleauxme here so you could clean up your little 'For Sale' forum. Thanks. [B)][xx(][;)]
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