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post #51 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-24-2005, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

I think it is instructive to see that the most agressive of the Bush-haters have not posted any positive actions they would take. It shows the weakness of their position--You cannopt lead by simply bashing you opposition. You must have a plan to improve the situation. Hate blinds even talented, educated, and creative people so that they are unable to help find a better solution.
Dissent is good. Hate profits no one.
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post #52 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-24-2005, 01:39 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Quote:
430 - 11/23/2005 6:56 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 11/22/2005 9:36 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/22/2005 6:08 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 11/22/2005 2:33 PM

Why try to open Anwar and invest in extracting oil from sand and shale when you could use all that money to become petrol free? Seems like a band-aid solution to the inevitable event that oil runs out. It will happen in our life time so why not be innovative?

What's so wrong about a nationalized health care program? The government provides you with an education, why can't the government take care of your well being also?
The opening of Anwar is a temporary measure allowing for technology to mature/be invented to bring the cost of processing tar oil down to a more reasonable level.

I don't believe that we will run out of oil in our life times. The claim was made in the 1970's that we would soon run out of oil. While I am not advocating we don't invest significantly in other technologies I generally refer to those who say we are about out of Oil as Chicken Littles. Just as they probably refer to me as an Ostrich. I am trying to an analysis of the proven oil reserves and efficiency in extraction. I can find plenty of information but not one that graphically breaks down the information to the level of granularity I am looking for.

Are you seriously asking these questions "What's so wrong about a nationalized health care program? The government provides you with an education, why can't the government take care of your well being also?"? Have you seen in general how poor our public education is? Take a look at Medicare & Medicaid to see why it is a bad idea to nationalize health care. There is an old adage if you really want to screw somehting up put the government in charge. This used to be known as the land of self reliance now it is the land of government reliance. Several disjointed thoughts thrown together. I have a number of friends and relatives in health care. Some of them gotten out of the medical practice due to all the paper work to the gov't. Many of those that have not vacated medicine are very unhappy as they are kept from actually treating paitents. Not to mention all the stories of how the system is abused, the cost over runs, how much the gov't pays for things (by their own rules), etc. Not to mention that unlike many places in the world there is no waiting list to get the care you need.
I started my educational journey in a public school. That journey has continued through the public school system all the way to a public univeristy, the University of Georgia. I feel I have a very good graps on where the public school system in this country stands. As with anything, school especially is what you make of it. If you dick around and are not motivated you learn nothing. The trick is to get children motivated to learn and make it interesting. That involved getting a teaching staff if there because it wants to be and enjoys teaching, not just because it was a last resort. This means pay them what they're worth. Forgive me for wanting to provide healthcare for my neighbor regardless of his financial condition.

Last time I needed stiched in France I found the system worked just fine. Until you've actually seen it in action and/or been a part of it, I find it extreamly difficult to make an oppinion on the matter besides you simply don't like the tax increase.
First off I have spent time in both public and private education. By no means is all public education bad and all private education good. It is just that the failure rate or public education is unexacptably high. The state of GA has some of the highest paid teachers in the country yet they rank 50th in education. More money is not the answer.

As far as providing healthcare for your neighbor he has it one way or another. If he is destitue he has medicaid. If he makes too much money to qualify for medicaid but does not have insurance he will not be turned away from receiving treatment.

Funny you should mention France. First of all in socialized medicine you generally don't have problems with things like stitches. It is when an operation is required that you run into a problem. Now back to the point on France. I was talking to a friend from France and his Uncle (Friend has been here ~20 years and the Uncle is just visiting). Conversation was all over the place but when it came to health care the uncle stated "No matter what you do, do not let them socialize health care." This was his hot button and he could look past most other stances as long as there was no attempt by a politician to socialize health care. About a month ago I was out in Vegas eating a nice dinner with my wife and Friends. We got talking with our waiter who turned out to be from France. Nice guy, spent a lot of time talking to him. Found out that the Eifle tower at the Paris Hotel is 1/3 the size as the real one. Back to the point though, again talking about differences between the countries and seeing that my wife is in healthcare the subject came up. His comment was that the care was much better in the US than in France. Not saying that these two examples seal the case just that here are two people that have seen our system and lived under socialized medicine and both felt our system was better.

Don't get me wrong our system is no where need perfect and needs much improvement but putting it in the hands of the governement is not the answer.
In Georgia, the state pays for each highschool student to take the SAT. The HOPE scholarshoip program in Geeorgia allows anyone with a 3.0 to attent any college in the state for free. As part of this program, they provide the opportunity for every student in highschool to take the SAT once. EVERYONE, regardless of how smart or stupid they are, takes the SAT. Thus, you end up with a skewed number from Georgia. Georgia is unique in their HOPE scholarship program where everyone takes the SAT versus say California where this program does not exist. I'm sure that if every highschool student in the country was required to take the SAT then you would see Georgia not so far down in the list.
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post #53 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-24-2005, 04:42 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Quote:
Ammonium - 11/24/2005 3:39 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/23/2005 6:56 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 11/22/2005 9:36 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/22/2005 6:08 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 11/22/2005 2:33 PM

Why try to open Anwar and invest in extracting oil from sand and shale when you could use all that money to become petrol free? Seems like a band-aid solution to the inevitable event that oil runs out. It will happen in our life time so why not be innovative?

What's so wrong about a nationalized health care program? The government provides you with an education, why can't the government take care of your well being also?
The opening of Anwar is a temporary measure allowing for technology to mature/be invented to bring the cost of processing tar oil down to a more reasonable level.

I don't believe that we will run out of oil in our life times. The claim was made in the 1970's that we would soon run out of oil. While I am not advocating we don't invest significantly in other technologies I generally refer to those who say we are about out of Oil as Chicken Littles. Just as they probably refer to me as an Ostrich. I am trying to an analysis of the proven oil reserves and efficiency in extraction. I can find plenty of information but not one that graphically breaks down the information to the level of granularity I am looking for.

Are you seriously asking these questions "What's so wrong about a nationalized health care program? The government provides you with an education, why can't the government take care of your well being also?"? Have you seen in general how poor our public education is? Take a look at Medicare & Medicaid to see why it is a bad idea to nationalize health care. There is an old adage if you really want to screw somehting up put the government in charge. This used to be known as the land of self reliance now it is the land of government reliance. Several disjointed thoughts thrown together. I have a number of friends and relatives in health care. Some of them gotten out of the medical practice due to all the paper work to the gov't. Many of those that have not vacated medicine are very unhappy as they are kept from actually treating paitents. Not to mention all the stories of how the system is abused, the cost over runs, how much the gov't pays for things (by their own rules), etc. Not to mention that unlike many places in the world there is no waiting list to get the care you need.
I started my educational journey in a public school. That journey has continued through the public school system all the way to a public univeristy, the University of Georgia. I feel I have a very good graps on where the public school system in this country stands. As with anything, school especially is what you make of it. If you dick around and are not motivated you learn nothing. The trick is to get children motivated to learn and make it interesting. That involved getting a teaching staff if there because it wants to be and enjoys teaching, not just because it was a last resort. This means pay them what they're worth. Forgive me for wanting to provide healthcare for my neighbor regardless of his financial condition.

Last time I needed stiched in France I found the system worked just fine. Until you've actually seen it in action and/or been a part of it, I find it extreamly difficult to make an oppinion on the matter besides you simply don't like the tax increase.
First off I have spent time in both public and private education. By no means is all public education bad and all private education good. It is just that the failure rate or public education is unexacptably high. The state of GA has some of the highest paid teachers in the country yet they rank 50th in education. More money is not the answer.

As far as providing healthcare for your neighbor he has it one way or another. If he is destitue he has medicaid. If he makes too much money to qualify for medicaid but does not have insurance he will not be turned away from receiving treatment.

Funny you should mention France. First of all in socialized medicine you generally don't have problems with things like stitches. It is when an operation is required that you run into a problem. Now back to the point on France. I was talking to a friend from France and his Uncle (Friend has been here ~20 years and the Uncle is just visiting). Conversation was all over the place but when it came to health care the uncle stated "No matter what you do, do not let them socialize health care." This was his hot button and he could look past most other stances as long as there was no attempt by a politician to socialize health care. About a month ago I was out in Vegas eating a nice dinner with my wife and Friends. We got talking with our waiter who turned out to be from France. Nice guy, spent a lot of time talking to him. Found out that the Eifle tower at the Paris Hotel is 1/3 the size as the real one. Back to the point though, again talking about differences between the countries and seeing that my wife is in healthcare the subject came up. His comment was that the care was much better in the US than in France. Not saying that these two examples seal the case just that here are two people that have seen our system and lived under socialized medicine and both felt our system was better.

Don't get me wrong our system is no where need perfect and needs much improvement but putting it in the hands of the governement is not the answer.
In Georgia, the state pays for each highschool student to take the SAT. The HOPE scholarshoip program in Geeorgia allows anyone with a 3.0 to attent any college in the state for free. As part of this program, they provide the opportunity for every student in highschool to take the SAT once. EVERYONE, regardless of how smart or stupid they are, takes the SAT. Thus, you end up with a skewed number from Georgia. Georgia is unique in their HOPE scholarship program where everyone takes the SAT versus say California where this program does not exist. I'm sure that if every highschool student in the country was required to take the SAT then you would see Georgia not so far down in the list.
I have heard the same whining excuse since I moved here. "Everyone in GA takes the SAT so our scores are lower. If every state implemented the program we have in GA we would look much better in terms of scores than we do now." The truth of it is in 2003 66% of GA students took the SAT placing GA 15th in the nation for student participation. 66% is far from everyone in the state taking the SAT test.

Of course what the Hope scholarship has lead to in the state of Georgia is rash of grade inflation. You can see the results of the grade inflation in two places 1) SAT scores and 2) fewer than 50% of students who receive the hope scholarship maintain the GPA required to continue to receive it.

Georgia’s college grade point average requirement cuts off financial assistance to students who could make it through college, albeit with mediocre grades, and is therefore almost certain to reduce HOPE’s impact on college attendance. Sixty-four percent of freshmen who received HOPE during academic year 1997–98 lost their scholarships the following year.

An Atlanta Journal-Constitution analysis showed standards for a B average vary widely from school to school in Georgia. Many high schools graduate large numbers of HOPE-eligible students, only to have them need remedial course work when they get to college. Only 40 percent of HOPE scholars survive their freshman year with the B average they need to retain the scholarship.
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post #54 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-24-2005, 07:11 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Quote:
MS Fowler - 11/24/2005 7:35 AM

--You cannot lead by simply bashing you opposition. ...
Nope, but history provides ample demonstration of the fact that bashing is the single best method to get elected. Also it can be sued to run the government. It ain't leadership, but it works.

B
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post #55 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 01:08 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Interesting maps.

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post #56 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 02:11 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Quote:
MS Fowler - 11/24/2005 6:35 AM

I think it is instructive to see that the most agressive of the Bush-haters have not posted any positive actions they would take. It shows the weakness of their position--You cannopt lead by simply bashing you opposition. You must have a plan to improve the situation. Hate blinds even talented, educated, and creative people so that they are unable to help find a better solution.
Dissent is good. Hate profits no one.
Glad you see through the hate.
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post #57 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 09:54 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Shane, I am still waiting on an answer to how changes I would like to see hurt those who are not members of my socio-economic group. I have seen the accusations but no examples or proof.
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post #58 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Quote:
Shane - 11/25/2005 4:11 PM

Quote:
MS Fowler - 11/24/2005 6:35 AM

I think it is instructive to see that the most agressive of the Bush-haters have not posted any positive actions they would take. It shows the weakness of their position--You cannopt lead by simply bashing you opposition. You must have a plan to improve the situation. Hate blinds even talented, educated, and creative people so that they are unable to help find a better solution.
Dissent is good. Hate profits no one.
Glad you see through the hate.
Shane,
I always thought this was the caes. I wanted to provide as simple a test just for my own peace of mind. I really desired to see if the hate-filled antangonists would be willing and able to post their own plan. They were not able. Proof, if any was needed, that their rantings are simply aimed at returning political power to the leftist fringe of the political spectrum.
I believe the real answer lies in moving to the side of true conservatives. True conservatives would not engage in foreign wars absent a clearly defined threat to the US. True conservatives would not pork up the budget. True conservatives would protect the country's borders. True conservatives would limit the federal government to the Constitutionally imposed limits. True conservatives would protect the individual's rights.
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post #59 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-26-2005, 05:45 PM
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RE: A Big, Squishy Softball question for all you Bush haters

Quote:
MS Fowler - 11/26/2005 6:05 AM

Quote:
Shane - 11/25/2005 4:11 PM

Quote:
MS Fowler - 11/24/2005 6:35 AM

I think it is instructive to see that the most agressive of the Bush-haters have not posted any positive actions they would take. It shows the weakness of their position--You cannopt lead by simply bashing you opposition. You must have a plan to improve the situation. Hate blinds even talented, educated, and creative people so that they are unable to help find a better solution.
Dissent is good. Hate profits no one.
Glad you see through the hate.
Shane,
I always thought this was the caes. I wanted to provide as simple a test just for my own peace of mind. I really desired to see if the hate-filled antangonists would be willing and able to post their own plan. They were not able. Proof, if any was needed, that their rantings are simply aimed at returning political power to the leftist fringe of the political spectrum.
I believe the real answer lies in moving to the side of true conservatives. True conservatives would not engage in foreign wars absent a clearly defined threat to the US. True conservatives would not pork up the budget. True conservatives would protect the country's borders. True conservatives would limit the federal government to the Constitutionally imposed limits. True conservatives would protect the individual's rights.
You sound kinda liberal there, be careful!
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