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post #71 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 05:19 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

I am baffled by people baffling each other for being baffled.

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post #72 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 05:42 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
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post #73 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 08:24 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
Shabah - 11/19/2005 7:42 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
Is that violin music I hear in the background?
post #74 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 08:25 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 6:53 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/19/2005 6:18 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
And I'm baffled when people have a hard time distinguishing between Saddam Hussein's Iraq, Nazi Germany and the United States.
If there is a point to your argument it can't be taken seriously when you use such outrageous parallels.
This is the problem of the left in the US right now.
They are just reduced to name calling with no coherent alternative to what they criticize.
And if it is not apparent, I am baffled when people have a hard time assessing the horror of an act if it is committed by the United States, but have no problem pointing the finger and screaming "Horrors!" when it the same act is committed by another country. It is also very puzzling when these people speak down to the rest of us from their moral high road while propping themselves up there by parsing the descriptions of the details of numbers of people that have been killed by these horrible methods by trying to establish some shade of goodness when the United States does the deed, while declaring the deed without any redeeming value when it is done by the others.

The America I learned about as a child, and then represented as a young man growing up in Germany, did not do this stuff. Period. We were known for having wiped out the Nazis without having Abu Graib's all over Germany. We also rebuilt the place after we destroyed it without using the former employer of the Vice President, much less with special exemptions from normal government contracting regulations, as the prime contractor. We were the country that founded the UN back then, not the one that scorns it.

America is losing its unique "American-ness" and we are becoming susceptible to the same weaknesses that befell the Germans when they became the Nazis. We are on our way, unless we stop this madness.



Yeah it is truly horrific that the US removed a tyrant responsible for a million plus dead, invading two neighbors, aiding terrorists, practicing genocide, causing immense damage to the enviroment purposely, lobbing missiles at the only democratic country in that region, trying to assassinate a US president, using chemical weapons on its own people, etc.

Yeah the US should be ashamed of itself for removing that benign creature. Yeah the US is turning into Nazi Germany because of it.









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post #75 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 08:54 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Take some time to educate yourself--so-called "chemical weapons" fall into four basic categories (called "agents").

Mustard gas is a "blistering agent"--it causes severe irritation of internal membranes/skin and fluid production as a result. A mustard gas casualty drowns in his own internal secretions or dies of dehydration/infection much as a burn victim does. Nasty stuff but hard to use effectively on a battlefield. Also archaic--other agents kill more people faster.

Chlorine/phosphine are "choking agents"--they kill by depriving the victim of breathable air (we'll come back to that shortly) and often combine characteristics of blistering agents. I remember hearing about some soldiers who died on a cleaning detail--they mixed up clorox bleach with ammonia in an enclosed space. That produces chlorine gas. In the open they might have survived, but not in a closed room. They're killers but must must be highly concentrated to work on an open battlefield--that makes them impractical.

Hydrogen Cyanide is a "blood agent". It robs the blood's ability to transfer oxygen via hemoglobin. You can breathe all you want, but if oxygen doesn't get to your brain you die. It's that simple. It's an effective agent on the battlefield but hard to use effectively, as it dissipates quickly. The latter makes most blood agents "non-persistent" agents. You can't contaminate an area with them.

VX is a "nerve agent"--basically an airborne poison. It interferes chemically with basic neural functions, including involuntary ones governing breathing and heartbeat. They're insecticides writ large: the first true nerve gas, Tabun, was accidentally discovered by a German chemist on an insecticide project who barely survived his discovery. Nerve agents are "Raid" for people. They also come in "persistent" (which can be used to contaminate an area) and non-persistent versions. When most laymen talk about "chemical weapons", they're referring to nerve gases. The others don't factor in.

Right--back to "choking agents". A choking agent kills with a combination of asphyxiation and toxin. So too does smoke from an ordinary house fire--and any fireman will tell you smoke kills many more people than fire itself. People in burning buildings die most often from smoke inhalation, yet those watching the fire outside are not physically affected by the same smoke. Why?

They're not in an enclosed area, and the smoke isn't concentrated.

Got all of that? Good. Now on to white phosphorus (WP), aka "Willy Peter".

It's a chemical, but an incendiary one--it burns things (fire itself is a chemical reaction, and no, I'm not going to teach Chemistry 101 here). In munitions it's used as a catalyst/accelerant for other chemicals; the reaction produces either illumination or smoke.

If a white phosphorous round goes off next to you you'll be burnt--just like if you jumped into a bonfire. But if you're in a bunker/house and a WP smoke round goes off nearby, the smoke will choke you unless you get out in the open--where you can and will be shot. That's what "shake-and-bake" is: "shake" them out of their holes with with smoke and then "bake" them with high explosives, shrapnel and bullets. And that's how we use it.

Fire and smoke are not illegal weapons, but they are the results of chemistry. WP is a catalyzing agent for both. Beyond that, it's not a chemical agent in any educated sense....
post #76 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 07:52 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
Shabah - 11/19/2005 7:42 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
There you go again. You are clearly prejudiced person. Making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Not rational behavior.

I doubt that you will believe me but no I don't think 'Your Kind' (your words not mine) are all bad. I have Persian & Arab friends (yes, I do know there is a differences) and they are great guys. Why would I spit on you? I can't think of any reason to spit on someone.

You are wrong about my feelings on the Military. Yes, I am a supporter of theirs but also think they should be held to certain standards. I have never defended Abu Garib. There is no defence for many of the events that took place there.

I don't make the movies or write the books so I can't help you there. If you want to send me the money I am more than happy to find a movie that portrays Arabs/Persians in a positive light.

Dude look around this board at the posts from pretty much everyone (yourself included) and you will see that "minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched..." Looking at this board and the postings I would say that I actually an anomaly on here. I have positions that I hold but unlike what most people here seem to espouse mine are not locked into a political ideology. An example I thought the picture posted of Bush as a vampire biting the neck of the statue of liberty was hilarious. I appreciated the art and the sentiment it conveyed. I posted a note in the thread supporting it. Yet, when I am here posting something about the conflict in Iraq I am accused of being a big Bush fan.

As far as the "good guys" and the "bad guys". For the most part the world is much too complex to apply such simple black and white labels to things/people/actions. There are exceptions, eg if you strap a bunch of explosives onto your chest walk into a restaurant, market, bus, etc. and detonate yourself you are a "bad guy".

I could go on but clearly your mind is closed and clouded by your prejudices.
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post #77 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 07:56 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
430 - 11/20/2005 9:52 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 11/19/2005 7:42 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
There you go again. You are clearly prejudiced person. Making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Not rational behavior.

I doubt that you will believe me but no I don't think 'Your Kind' (your words not mine) are all bad. I have Persian & Arab friends (yes, I do know there is a differences) and they are great guys. Why would I spit on you? I can't think of any reason to spit on someone.

You are wrong about my feelings on the Military. Yes, I am a supporter of theirs but also think they should be held to certain standards. I have never defended Abu Garib. There is no defence for many of the events that took place there.

I don't make the movies or write the books so I can't help you there. If you want to send me the money I am more than happy to find a movie that portrays Arabs/Persians in a positive light.

Dude look around this board at the posts from pretty much everyone (yourself included) and you will see that "minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched..." Looking at this board and the postings I would say that I actually an anomaly on here. I have positions that I hold but unlike what most people here seem to espouse mine are not locked into a political ideology. An example I thought the picture posted of Bush as a vampire biting the neck of the statue of liberty was hilarious. I appreciated the art and the sentiment it conveyed. I posted a note in the thread supporting it. Yet, when I am here posting something about the conflict in Iraq I am accused of being a big Bush fan.

As far as the "good guys" and the "bad guys". For the most part the world is much too complex to apply such simple black and white labels to things/people/actions. There are exceptions, eg if you strap a bunch of explosives onto your chest walk into a restaurant, market, bus, etc. and detonate yourself you are a "bad guy".

I could go on but clearly your mind is closed and clouded by your prejudices.
Yep.

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post #78 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 08:01 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
430 - 11/20/2005 9:52 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 11/19/2005 7:42 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
There you go again. You are clearly prejudiced person. Making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Not rational behavior.

I doubt that you will believe me but no I don't think 'Your Kind' (your words not mine) are all bad. I have Persian & Arab friends (yes, I do know there is a differences) and they are great guys. Why would I spit on you? I can't think of any reason to spit on someone.

You are wrong about my feelings on the Military. Yes, I am a supporter of theirs but also think they should be held to certain standards. I have never defended Abu Garib. There is no defence for many of the events that took place there.

I don't make the movies or write the books so I can't help you there. If you want to send me the money I am more than happy to find a movie that portrays Arabs/Persians in a positive light.

Dude look around this board at the posts from pretty much everyone (yourself included) and you will see that "minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched..." Looking at this board and the postings I would say that I actually an anomaly on here. I have positions that I hold but unlike what most people here seem to espouse mine are not locked into a political ideology. An example I thought the picture posted of Bush as a vampire biting the neck of the statue of liberty was hilarious. I appreciated the art and the sentiment it conveyed. I posted a note in the thread supporting it. Yet, when I am here posting something about the conflict in Iraq I am accused of being a big Bush fan.

As far as the "good guys" and the "bad guys". For the most part the world is much too complex to apply such simple black and white labels to things/people/actions. There are exceptions, eg if you strap a bunch of explosives onto your chest walk into a restaurant, market, bus, etc. and detonate yourself you are a "bad guy".

I could go on but clearly your mind is closed and clouded by your prejudices.
Make no mistake, I never said that I am fair or my views are the right ones... First of all I don't like being bundled up with terrorists by ASSUMING that somehow I think they are the good guys. If you carefully read my posts, I am probably trully more proAmerican in a pure sense than most. I value liberty and freedom the way it was meant to be, unmolested and with no political corruption dictating what these should be.
So take your time and carefully review what I say, sometimes you may have to read between the lines but my theme is simple. Unfortunatly there some real racists on this board like guage(he used to be Alfa) that get on my nerves here and there, so chill...
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post #79 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 09:09 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
Shabah - 11/20/2005 10:01 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/20/2005 9:52 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 11/19/2005 7:42 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
There you go again. You are clearly prejudiced person. Making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Not rational behavior.

I doubt that you will believe me but no I don't think 'Your Kind' (your words not mine) are all bad. I have Persian & Arab friends (yes, I do know there is a differences) and they are great guys. Why would I spit on you? I can't think of any reason to spit on someone.

You are wrong about my feelings on the Military. Yes, I am a supporter of theirs but also think they should be held to certain standards. I have never defended Abu Garib. There is no defence for many of the events that took place there.

I don't make the movies or write the books so I can't help you there. If you want to send me the money I am more than happy to find a movie that portrays Arabs/Persians in a positive light.

Dude look around this board at the posts from pretty much everyone (yourself included) and you will see that "minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched..." Looking at this board and the postings I would say that I actually an anomaly on here. I have positions that I hold but unlike what most people here seem to espouse mine are not locked into a political ideology. An example I thought the picture posted of Bush as a vampire biting the neck of the statue of liberty was hilarious. I appreciated the art and the sentiment it conveyed. I posted a note in the thread supporting it. Yet, when I am here posting something about the conflict in Iraq I am accused of being a big Bush fan.

As far as the "good guys" and the "bad guys". For the most part the world is much too complex to apply such simple black and white labels to things/people/actions. There are exceptions, eg if you strap a bunch of explosives onto your chest walk into a restaurant, market, bus, etc. and detonate yourself you are a "bad guy".

I could go on but clearly your mind is closed and clouded by your prejudices.
Make no mistake, I never said that I am fair or my views are the right ones... First of all I don't like being bundled up with terrorists by ASSUMING that somehow I think they are the good guys. If you carefully read my posts, I am probably trully more proAmerican in a pure sense than most. I value liberty and freedom the way it was meant to be, unmolested and with no political corruption dictating what these should be.
So take your time and carefully review what I say, sometimes you may have to read between the lines but my theme is simple. Unfortunatly there some real racists on this board like guage(he used to be Alfa) that get on my nerves here and there, so chill...


I have always found it amusing when either side of the debate claims to be more pro American than the other. It's equally amusing when the person saying that only posts stuff that portrays the US in a negative light.
Maybe you don't think the terrorists are the good guys but you certainly don't think American troops are either.


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post #80 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 05:54 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
Shabah - 11/20/2005 10:01 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/20/2005 9:52 PM

Quote:
Shabah - 11/19/2005 7:42 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
Personally I think you would have sided with the military even if they had used mustard gas, you would have simply argued that the kind they used is actually not considered a chemical weapon...
There is no arguing with your kind when your minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched...
My kind will always be the bad guys and you MUST be like the John Wayne fella the "god guys" no matter what... Hell I can count with one hand any movies your people made that portraid my people somewhat as brave or kind, but I can go on and on about movies, books and articles equating us as the pest and scum of this earth. Don't tell me it ain't so, it is not raining when you are spitting on my face while talking to me...
There you go again. You are clearly prejudiced person. Making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Not rational behavior.

I doubt that you will believe me but no I don't think 'Your Kind' (your words not mine) are all bad. I have Persian & Arab friends (yes, I do know there is a differences) and they are great guys. Why would I spit on you? I can't think of any reason to spit on someone.

You are wrong about my feelings on the Military. Yes, I am a supporter of theirs but also think they should be held to certain standards. I have never defended Abu Garib. There is no defence for many of the events that took place there.

I don't make the movies or write the books so I can't help you there. If you want to send me the money I am more than happy to find a movie that portrays Arabs/Persians in a positive light.

Dude look around this board at the posts from pretty much everyone (yourself included) and you will see that "minds are made up and sides are drawn and attitudes are entrenched..." Looking at this board and the postings I would say that I actually an anomaly on here. I have positions that I hold but unlike what most people here seem to espouse mine are not locked into a political ideology. An example I thought the picture posted of Bush as a vampire biting the neck of the statue of liberty was hilarious. I appreciated the art and the sentiment it conveyed. I posted a note in the thread supporting it. Yet, when I am here posting something about the conflict in Iraq I am accused of being a big Bush fan.

As far as the "good guys" and the "bad guys". For the most part the world is much too complex to apply such simple black and white labels to things/people/actions. There are exceptions, eg if you strap a bunch of explosives onto your chest walk into a restaurant, market, bus, etc. and detonate yourself you are a "bad guy".

I could go on but clearly your mind is closed and clouded by your prejudices.
Make no mistake, I never said that I am fair or my views are the right ones... First of all I don't like being bundled up with terrorists by ASSUMING that somehow I think they are the good guys. If you carefully read my posts, I am probably trully more proAmerican in a pure sense than most. I value liberty and freedom the way it was meant to be, unmolested and with no political corruption dictating what these should be.
So take your time and carefully review what I say, sometimes you may have to read between the lines but my theme is simple. Unfortunatly there some real racists on this board like guage(he used to be Alfa) that get on my nerves here and there, so chill...
Be careful with statements like "I value liberty and freedom the way it was meant to be, unmolested and with no political corruption dictating what these should be." Kvining will accuse you of being a puffery headed utopian.

I did see several of the posts that lumped you in with terroists or that you were a big supporter of their position. I have not done that nor am I familar enough with your track record to comment one way or another on what your leanings are.
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