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post #61 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 06:33 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

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Shane - 11/18/2005 2:00 PM

Quote:
430 - 11/18/2005 12:15 PM

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old300D - 11/18/2005 11:31 AM

Why are you defending your position then? If it's not ok, why do you maintain it is? The fact is we have killed many many many civilians. They have been targeted because the weapons are indiscriminate and the insurgents are gaining acceptance by the civilians. We brought that on ourselves by dropping cluster bombs and destroying hospitals and houses. Then we tortured the population. What would you do?
There is a huge difference between a collateral damage and direct targeting of civilians.

Remember your position if a homicide bomber ever walks onto a school bus in the US and detonates himself killing 60 children. I esp. want you to remember this if your child is on the bus. According to your post this is a justified action because some innocent people were killed in a war.

If we acted like the people you seem to admire and who's actions you justify we would just carpet bomb all of Iraq and state that they asked for it.
So an occupation of a rogue country is the best way to stop the extreme scenario you give? Are you that naive?
I never talked about the best way to prevent it or whether the risk is greater today than it was pre-invasion. The entire point was that you support homicide bombing of soft targets as a legitimate, valid, praise worthy strategy and that if the event occurs here and directly impacts you, your family, your friends, your whatever please remember your statements that the actions of the murders were perfectly acceptable. There is no fear mongering saying it is going to happen tomorrow, or if we don't invade Syria, Iran, or whoever it will happen. It is simply a statement that if it does happen.

Whether everyone likes it or not White Phosphorus is a legal weapon the chemical weapons used by Saddam were not. White phosphorus was used against military targets. Were civilians killed by that attack? Depends on who you believe. Saddam used chemical weapons against the civilian Kurds.
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post #62 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 02:22 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
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post #63 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 03:15 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
Shabah - 11/18/2005 9:18 PM

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Botnst - 11/18/2005 9:16 PM

Just a lil ol point of info here. All explosives of any sort are chemically based except nukes. But even nukes have explosives to crank up the rxn.

Please return to your regular programming.

Bot
Oh Ok then, I guess I was wrong, let it rain phosphorous, it's just a chemical because it had to be blown up on top of people...
Huh?

Explosives are just very fast reactions. For example, primacord burns at something like 6,000m/sec. Faster than a speeding bullet, of which a very fast one may travel at 1,500m/sec. That's one reason I get those, "Stop the movie" moments whenever I see heroic guys on TV somehow outrunning the pressure wave of an explosion.

The argument about the humanity of different forms of weapons of war is intriguing in a revolting sort of way. For some reason, beheading seems inhumane to western eyes, but really, it's very quick and practically painless if done properly. In comparison, a bullet badly place can leave a victim in death agony for days.

I agree with teh sentiment concerning buring somebody to death as being a special horror, whether gasoline, napalm, or white phosphorus. Death from burning is a special horror, isn't it?
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post #64 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 04:18 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
And I'm baffled when people have a hard time distinguishing between Saddam Hussein's Iraq, Nazi Germany and the United States.
If there is a point to your argument it can't be taken seriously when you use such outrageous parallels.
This is the problem of the left in the US right now.
They are just reduced to name calling with no coherent alternative to what they criticize.





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post #65 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 04:23 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

the left??? man, wake up! the world is calling US these names and there are good reasons. might want to take the blinders off too.



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post #66 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 04:53 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/19/2005 6:18 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
And I'm baffled when people have a hard time distinguishing between Saddam Hussein's Iraq, Nazi Germany and the United States.
If there is a point to your argument it can't be taken seriously when you use such outrageous parallels.
This is the problem of the left in the US right now.
They are just reduced to name calling with no coherent alternative to what they criticize.
And if it is not apparent, I am baffled when people have a hard time assessing the horror of an act if it is committed by the United States, but have no problem pointing the finger and screaming "Horrors!" when it the same act is committed by another country. It is also very puzzling when these people speak down to the rest of us from their moral high road while propping themselves up there by parsing the descriptions of the details of numbers of people that have been killed by these horrible methods by trying to establish some shade of goodness when the United States does the deed, while declaring the deed without any redeeming value when it is done by the others.

The America I learned about as a child, and then represented as a young man growing up in Germany, did not do this stuff. Period. We were known for having wiped out the Nazis without having Abu Graib's all over Germany. We also rebuilt the place after we destroyed it without using the former employer of the Vice President, much less with special exemptions from normal government contracting regulations, as the prime contractor. We were the country that founded the UN back then, not the one that scorns it.

America is losing its unique "American-ness" and we are becoming susceptible to the same weaknesses that befell the Germans when they became the Nazis. We are on our way, unless we stop this madness.
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post #67 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 04:54 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
It is pretty sad if your pride is so easliy swayed.

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.

If we used nerve gas, mustard gas, sarin, VX, or any number of other weapons I would have a serious issue with it.

But as it stands the military did nothing wrong.
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post #68 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 05:05 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/19/2005 6:18 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
And I'm baffled when people have a hard time distinguishing between Saddam Hussein's Iraq, Nazi Germany and the United States.
If there is a point to your argument it can't be taken seriously when you use such outrageous parallels.
This is the problem of the left in the US right now.
They are just reduced to name calling with no coherent alternative to what they criticize.
And if it is not apparent, I am baffled when people have a hard time assessing the horror of an act if it is committed by the United States, but have no problem pointing the finger and screaming "Horrors!" when it the same act is committed by another country. It is also very puzzling when these people speak down to the rest of us from their moral high road while propping themselves up there by parsing the descriptions of the details of numbers of people that have been killed by these horrible methods by trying to establish some shade of goodness when the United States does the deed, while declaring the deed without any redeeming value when it is done by the others.

The America I learned about as a child, and then represented as a young man growing up in Germany, did not do this stuff. Period. We were known for having wiped out the Nazis without having Abu Graib's all over Germany. We also rebuilt the place after we destroyed it without using the former employer of the Vice President, much less with special exemptions from normal government contracting regulations, as the prime contractor. We were the country that founded the UN back then, not the one that scorns it.

America is losing its unique "American-ness" and we are becoming susceptible to the same weaknesses that befell the Germans when they became the Nazis. We are on our way, unless we stop this madness.
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post #69 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 05:09 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

nazis didn't have a problem killing jews either. just because you don't think and it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right.



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post #70 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-19-2005, 05:10 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/19/2005 6:18 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/19/2005 4:22 PM

My pride in being an American is damaged when legal parsing of words is needed to project a difference between Saddam Hussein's regime and my America. You guys have the equivalent ethics standards of the lowest common denominator between Hitler's trusted staff and Saddam's. Read Congress's Resolutions on Iraq and then read what was done and what we are doing now. Read Dick Cheney's initiative to get the CIA and exemption for excluding torture for their captives. America is suffering from this administration and your blind support. You are sounding more and more like the Nazis you hate to be compared with - use your pattern recognition skills. No one told the Germans to vote for Hitler when he got in because he was for murdering Jews in death camps. Jim
And I'm baffled when people have a hard time distinguishing between Saddam Hussein's Iraq, Nazi Germany and the United States.
If there is a point to your argument it can't be taken seriously when you use such outrageous parallels.
This is the problem of the left in the US right now.
They are just reduced to name calling with no coherent alternative to what they criticize.
And if it is not apparent, I am baffled when people have a hard time assessing the horror of an act if it is committed by the United States, but have no problem pointing the finger and screaming "Horrors!" when it the same act is committed by another country. It is also very puzzling when these people speak down to the rest of us from their moral high road while propping themselves up there by parsing the descriptions of the details of numbers of people that have been killed by these horrible methods by trying to establish some shade of goodness when the United States does the deed, while declaring the deed without any redeeming value when it is done by the others.

The America I learned about as a child, and then represented as a young man growing up in Germany, did not do this stuff. Period. We were known for having wiped out the Nazis without having Abu Graib's all over Germany. We also rebuilt the place after we destroyed it without using the former employer of the Vice President, much less with special exemptions from normal government contracting regulations, as the prime contractor. We were the country that founded the UN back then, not the one that scorns it.

America is losing its unique "American-ness" and we are becoming susceptible to the same weaknesses that befell the Germans when they became the Nazis. We are on our way, unless we stop this madness.
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