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post #121 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:33 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

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mzsmbs - 11/22/2005 11:24 PM

ok. link me to an unbiased human rights site.
I would so presume. Like I said, ask the Baptists if Satan is at work.

What I mean is this: The institution is established for the purpose of exposing violations of human rights. Do they look for objective, verifiable evidence or do they look for suspicions?

How do they measure violations in countries that don't allow access like say, Iran or N Korea? By the same criteria that they evaluate say, Sweden?

Superficially, it sounds like a useful metric. But when it gets to the short hairs, you have to acknowledge that open societies will necessarily come under more careful review than closed societies. How to scale these differences is a judgement call.

Who makes that call? Does it matter whether it is (say) Mother Teresa or (say) Pol Pot?

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post #122 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:33 PM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

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mzsmbs - 11/22/2005 11:24 PM

ok. link me to an unbiased human rights site.
I think that's his point, MZ. There are none.

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post #123 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 04:30 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

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430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.
News report: US intelligence classified white phosphorus as 'chemical weapon'

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle328703.ece
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post #124 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 04:33 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Separately, anyone who can't spell "you're" shouldn't engage in spelling flames..
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post #125 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 04:42 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

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chiphomme - 11/22/2005 10:44 PM
No you don't. You have called me a brain dead racist.
Keep your "vile drivel" to yourself.
And if you're too simple to understand that the military is a killing machine and is a tool of US foriegn policy then I suggest you educate yourself.
I did not call you a brain dead racist. You seem to have surmised that on your own. As for the military's role in life, I never suggested they were not an armed force. I just reject the idea that the members of the volunteer armed forces are more disposable than an armed force made up of conscripts. I reject the idea that sending them off to die without being held accountable is some priviledge granted to the President when he is sworn into office. I also reject the idea that America is somehow responsible for rearranging the geopolitical structure of the world into our ideal. And, I reject the idea that Saddam was more of a threat to us than North Korea. Or Iran. Or Saudi Arabia, depending on how you assess the threat. And I surely reject killing Americans and other innocents without a solid, publicly debated and agreed upon reasoning following the principles of our form of government - principles and a form of that we loudly preach about and are so eager to force upon other cultures but avoid practicing when it becomes inconvenient these days.

I do not hold the soldiers in Iraq responsible for our policy. They are following orders. The orders are flawed. Save their precious lives for a situation that meets our standards for engaging an enemy. Like the people we are going to turn our killing tool on actually threatened America. Jim
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post #126 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 06:20 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
BENZ REB - 11/23/2005 6:30 AM

Quote:
430 - 11/19/2005 6:54 PM

Personally I would never draw a link between white phosphorus and chemical weapons. I was simply making a point to others that made the link. I have no problem with the fact that it was used in the conflict.
News report: US intelligence classified white phosphorus as 'chemical weapon'

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle328703.ece
Ok, so we have a reporter who wrote an article claiming support for her article by sighting qouting a document. Hardly proof. If this type of "evidence" was used in a scientific paper the researcher would be a laughing stock.

For the sake of argument lets assume that what is stated by this reporter is factual, complete, and not taken out of context. Given those caveats then it sounds like the US wants it cake and eat it to. A consistent policy is needed. Either it is ok for us in combat or not. If it is ok for us to use against the enemy then we have to run the risk of it being used against us. If it is not acceptable for them to use it then that means we should not use it.
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post #127 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 06:50 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

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JimSmith - 11/23/2005 5:42 AM


Save their precious lives for a situation that meets our standards for engaging an enemy. Like the people we are going to turn our killing tool on actually threatened America.
Did I miss something somewhere? Aren't the bad guys in Iraq some of the same bad guys that blew the WTC (twice), the Army barracks in Saudi, the embassies in Africa, the USS Cole, etc.?

As I said before, the bad guys are on the ground in Iraq. As a brigadier general with the 1st Cavalry Division told me earlier this year in Baghdad: "We got them right where we want them. Let them all come here and we will kill them all." He thought it was better to fight them in Iraq than in NYC...

And any fool can see they are an actual threat against America, and the free world in general.

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post #128 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 07:12 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
mark2280 - 11/23/2005 8:50 AM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/23/2005 5:42 AM


Save their precious lives for a situation that meets our standards for engaging an enemy. Like the people we are going to turn our killing tool on actually threatened America.
Did I miss something somewhere? Aren't the bad guys in Iraq some of the same bad guys that blew the WTC (twice), the Army barracks in Saudi, the embassies in Africa, the USS Cole, etc.?

As I said before, the bad guys are on the ground in Iraq. As a brigadier general with the 1st Cavalry Division told me earlier this year in Baghdad: "We got them right where we want them. Let them all come here and we will kill them all." He thought it was better to fight them in Iraq than in NYC...

And any fool can see they are an actual threat against America, and the free world in general.
The varieties of fools is greater than you realize.

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post #129 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 08:27 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Here is a perfect example of what we are dealing with in Iraq. these dirtbags are killing there own Sunni "brothers" just to start a civil war. They can't get the Shi'ites to start it so they are killing there own...

Quote:
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen in Iraqi army uniforms shot dead a 70-year-old Sunni Arab tribal leader and three of his sons as they slept in their home, relatives said on Wednesday.

A Defense Ministry official denied Iraqi troops were involved in the slayings in the Hurriya district of Baghdad overnight and said the killers must have been terrorists in disguise.

"Iraqi army uniforms litter the streets and any terrorist can kill and tarnish our image, killing two birds with one stone," he said.

The attack is likely to fuel sectarian tensions which have raised fears of civil war.

It comes a week after the discovery of more than 170 malnourished Sunni prisoners locked in an Interior Ministry bunker. Some showed signs of starvation and torture.

In the latest attack, an Interior Ministry official said 40 men wearing army uniforms had come to the victims' house in the night. Relatives said they were shot in their sleep.

One victim was holding his daughter. "The gunmen told the girl to move then shot the father," said a relative.

The slain elderly man, Kathim Sirheed Ali, was the head of the Batta tribe, his family said.

Sunni leaders accuse the Shi'ite-dominated Interior Ministry of sanctioning death squads run by Shi'ite militias which attack Sunnis. The government denies it.

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post #130 of 140 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 08:56 AM
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RE: US now admits it used chemical weapons against Iraqis

Quote:
mark2280 - 11/23/2005 8:27 AM

Here is a perfect example of what we are dealing with in Iraq. these dirtbags are killing there own Sunni "brothers" just to start a civil war. They can't get the Shi'ites to start it so they are killing there own...

Quote:
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen in Iraqi army uniforms shot dead a 70-year-old Sunni Arab tribal leader and three of his sons as they slept in their home, relatives said on Wednesday.

A Defense Ministry official denied Iraqi troops were involved in the slayings in the Hurriya district of Baghdad overnight and said the killers must have been terrorists in disguise.

"Iraqi army uniforms litter the streets and any terrorist can kill and tarnish our image, killing two birds with one stone," he said.

The attack is likely to fuel sectarian tensions which have raised fears of civil war.

It comes a week after the discovery of more than 170 malnourished Sunni prisoners locked in an Interior Ministry bunker. Some showed signs of starvation and torture.

In the latest attack, an Interior Ministry official said 40 men wearing army uniforms had come to the victims' house in the night. Relatives said they were shot in their sleep.

One victim was holding his daughter. "The gunmen told the girl to move then shot the father," said a relative.

The slain elderly man, Kathim Sirheed Ali, was the head of the Batta tribe, his family said.

Sunni leaders accuse the Shi'ite-dominated Interior Ministry of sanctioning death squads run by Shi'ite militias which attack Sunnis. The government denies it.
So let them. Why should we send our troops to die there too? Blah blah blah, the enemy is way worse than us, so we are justified using chemical weapons and torture. Typical excuse to behave badly.

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