Bush on torture: Doublespeak - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Bush on torture: Doublespeak

George W. Bush declared today that "we do not torture." At the very same time, his point man, Big Dick Cheney, was seeking to modify a Senate bill that prohibits U.S. involvement in torture. Cheney wants an exception in the bill that would allow the CIA to use whatever means necessary--including torture--to fight the "war on terror."

This bill that would formally outlaw U.S. involvement in torture is sponsored by John McCain, and it has broad bi-partisan support. McCain, a former POW who was tortured, is a person who can see the obvious dangers that would await U.S. service personnel who find themselves in enemy hands--obviously, any moral authority we might have in the world community to argue against torture and other violations of the Geneva conventions would seem hollow if we engage in the very same practices ourselves.

Thus, the administration is hell bent on becoming our enemy. We assume the moral authority to fight those we deem morally inferior, all the while embracing tactics that lower us to their level.

Or in Orwellian terms: We are against torture, but we do not want to be prevented legally from using it. Doublespeak, again.

Joe B.
Joe Bauers is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 12:54 PM
worst mod in BW history
 
ThrillKill's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2005
Vehicle: ML CLK Iridescent Hyundai Accent lol,GoPed Freightshaker & Volvo semi's, c'mawn?
Location: Chicago
Posts: 27,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
RE: Bush on torture: Doublespeak

I dunno? that's a toughy. The Geneva C was drawn up to include recognized armies only, I believe.
I don't think a little Chinese water torture can hurt anyone. They could update it to a bright room where the detainee is made to listen to Ashley Simpson............Live.
But seriously, when it was drawn up torture was torture, man.
Who'da thunk back then that flushing somebodys book down the potty would be considered cruel and unusual punishment. I'm all for sissifying the world in the name of peace but not when we are the only ones practicing wimpism.

ThrillKill is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 01:03 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
RE: Bush on torture: Doublespeak

The Geneva Convention recognizes the rights of insurgents in countries under foreign occupation to resist agressors and to be treated humanely when captured, however they may be prosecuted under domestic and international law as common criminals. There is no right to torture them.

http://hrw.org/campaigns/iraq/ihlfaq042904.htm#What%20law%20applies%20to%20the%2 0fighting%20between%20coalition%20forces%20and%20i nsurgents?

snippet:

"Captured insurgents are not entitled to be prisoners of war (unless they are found to be members of the former Iraqi armed forces, such as was the case with Saddam Hussein). Such persons are entitled to humane treatment and other protections due under the Fourth Geneva Convention. The rights of such persons, such as not to be mistreated, are often the same as rights POWs enjoy. As noted, they may nonetheless be prosecuted for having taken up arms as well as for committing war crimes or crimes against humanity."




Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: Bush on torture: Doublespeak

Quote:
ThrillKill - 11/7/2005 2:54 PM

I dunno? that's a toughy. The Geneva C was drawn up to include recognized armies only, I believe.
I don't think a little Chinese water torture can hurt anyone. They could update it to a bright room where the detainee is made to listen to Ashley Simpson............Live.
But seriously, when it was drawn up torture was torture, man.
Who'da thunk back then that flushing somebodys book down the potty would be considered cruel and unusual punishment. I'm all for sissifying the world in the name of peace but not when we are the only ones practicing wimpism.
I would recommend FROM 9/11 TO ABU GHRAIB (sp?), by Seymour Hersh. He documents a whole lot more than you apparently believe was involved in detainee "interrogation" I think the view from anywhere outside the United States is that the U.S. did use torture, still uses torture, and has lied about it from the outset. Currenty, we apparently are out-sourcing torture to countries within Europe. McCain's bill is specifically designed to put this country on record as being against torture. He has the support of many Democrats and Republicans. If it was such a small matter, I doubt that he or others would have taken notice and worked out a bill, and I doubt that Cheney and Bush would be so adamant in opposing it. Actually, this bill may be the first that Bush will veto in his entire presidency.

Joe B.
Joe Bauers is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 02:04 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
old300D's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jul 2003
Vehicle: '83 240D
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RE: Bush on torture: Doublespeak

I really am serious when I say I WANT Bush to veto the bill. It would be overidden so fast his head would spin, and the political fallout from that would be devastating. That's why Cheney's trying to keep his influence low-key.

OBK #35

old300D is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: Bush on torture: Doublespeak

Quote:
old300D - 11/7/2005 4:04 PM

I really am serious when I say I WANT Bush to veto the bill. It would be overidden so fast his head would spin, and the political fallout from that would be devastating. That's why Cheney's trying to keep his influence low-key.
He is definitely stupid enough, and also arrogant enough, to do just that. I'm with you--would love to see it.

Joe
Joe Bauers is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 03:45 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Shabah's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2004
Vehicle: 300c (1956)
Location: 19 05'40.0 N, 49 49'09 E
Posts: 2,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RE: Bush on torture: Doublespeak

Give the guy a break. The US never tortured anyone, nor did it send anyone to other countries for that do be doen for it. You people are a bunch of anti American commies get your facts straight. Just go ahead and list right here in this thread credible facts. This torture business was made up all along by the lefties and terrorist lovers that have no respect for American values, its flag and apple pie.
You people are brain washed, how could the leader of the world allow such things as torture, lies and profitering? You are all so full of it.
Shabah is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome