US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 03:33 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

We didn't invade Iraq for it's natural resources. The planning for the invasion of Iraq began the day after GW was elected (I know this for a fact). Originally, the whole idea was to wipe the stain from GW's father's reputation (the fact that Geo Sr. didn't remove Saddam from power when he had the chance during the Persian Gulf War of '91). And then along comes 9/11 and GW has the perfect excuse.
Now whether or not you believe him, it is true there were limited quantities of various gases found (and still being used occasionally in IEDs, even though the idiots don't even know they have a gas shell rather than a HE shell). And the oil deal, of course plays into it (by the way if you'd really like to get worked up over Iraqi oil, the stuff I could tell you....)
The funny thing about it, is that the US really didn't want to remove Saddam, they needed him to act as a shield between Iran and the Kingdoms, fearing an Islamic revolution throughout all the Arab states. Originally, we were hoping for someone similar (non-religious) that could control the various factions. We would have allowed the new president to use the same heavy-handed means of controlling the Iraqi people as long as he wasn't killing everyone. It's really the only way the various factions have ever been controlled. As it turns out, we probably will end up with our worst nightmare, an Iranian ally.

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post #42 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 05:30 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

Quote:
mark2280 - 10/26/2005 3:33 PM

We didn't invade Iraq for it's natural resources. The planning for the invasion of Iraq began the day after GW was elected (I know this for a fact). Originally, the whole idea was to wipe the stain from GW's father's reputation (the fact that Geo Sr. didn't remove Saddam from power when he had the chance during the Persian Gulf War of '91). And then along comes 9/11 and GW has the perfect excuse.
Now whether or not you believe him, it is true there were limited quantities of various gases found (and still being used occasionally in IEDs, even though the idiots don't even know they have a gas shell rather than a HE shell). And the oil deal, of course plays into it (by the way if you'd really like to get worked up over Iraqi oil, the stuff I could tell you....)
The funny thing about it, is that the US really didn't want to remove Saddam, they needed him to act as a shield between Iran and the Kingdoms, fearing an Islamic revolution throughout all the Arab states. Originally, we were hoping for someone similar (non-religious) that could control the various factions. We would have allowed the new president to use the same heavy-handed means of controlling the Iraqi people as long as he wasn't killing everyone. It's really the only way the various factions have ever been controlled. As it turns out, we probably will end up with our worst nightmare, an Iranian ally.
That's an interesting perspective, but you are not allowing for the fact that there may have been many reasons to invade, and control of natural resources is obvious. It's in our, albeit short-term, national interest to secure the faucet for our petroleum addiction. How can you say that was not a reason? PNAC asserts it. Are you not on board?

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We would have allowed the new president to use the same heavy-handed means of controlling the Iraqi people as long as he wasn't killing everyone.
That's the best one yet. As long as he wasn't killing? That's what Sadaam did best, and that's required in order to qualify as heavy-handed. No softy is going to control those factions; that's now obvious with the US presence, and I would call our tactics extremely heavy handed, including killing and such.

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post #43 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 05:40 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

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GermanStar - 10/26/2005 4:46 PM

By virtue of proximity, one could forward the notion that Poland was actually more of a threat to Germany than Iraq was to the U.S.
Yeah, some of those native Poland meals can make a real air polution problem when you are in such close proximity. So can German food, but it is always the other guy's stink that is offensive. On the other hand, even though Iraqi food would make me fear my own stench, the Iraqis eating it have no effect on me, just based on geography. You have a point there. Jim
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post #44 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 06:44 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

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kvining - 10/26/2005 4:10 PM

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JimSmith - 10/25/2005 7:01 PM

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Botnst - 10/25/2005 5:45 PM
Oh, you're not going to like this place. I'm betting somebody will call you a Nazi sympathizer pretty soon.

Those guys have been really excited at the approaching 2k mark. It reminds me of their frenzied frothing for 1k.

Botnst
Bot, 'fess up, you like it when that Nazi label comes out. I think you have used the threat of it coming from others more often than anyone has actually tried to pin it on Bush and his team lately. I think it must get your blood stirred up. And what's with the frenzied frothing over the 2k dead issue? It is just another American boy's life given up by a country for some unenunciated goal when the conflict started, that we would likely never have backed as a nation, after having watched 1999 of our boys come home in flag covered boxes. I mean, what the hell is the excitement about? Why get in a frenzied, frothing state? Looks like another 56,152 have to go by our standard set in Vietnam before we acknowledge we don't have a just cause, leave, and end the killing. That is a long way to go.

According to the statistics of how many more Iraqis and others making up the local population that die for every American that loses his life bringing democracy to Iraq, that should translate to about 1,000,000 to 3,000,000 or more of these lesser humans that we must also kill before the killing at the instigation of America or hands of Americans in Iraq stops.

We once had a debate going on whether or not a nuke on 9/12/2001 would have been a bigger or smaller crime against humanity than this slow killing business. That was when we thought Osamma=Saddam and Al Qaieda = Iraqis or something like that and we were going in to Iraq to rid us of the immediate threat Saddam posed to the United States. The prospect of killing several million Iraqis in the name of defending America from 9/11 attacks, while Osamma is gleefully screwing as many virgins as he can, where ever he is, just fails any common sense test.

We need to face the fact that we suck unbelievably at this kind of warfare. We should therefore either get really good at it, kind of be a super power at it, or, stop pretending to be a super power when we make it apparent we can't hold our own if someone does kill a couple thousand of us at a time, or, be a freaking superpower and use our superpower skills and capabilities when we have to get aggressive and win.

The key is "have to get aggressive" and how you make that determination. Big time weapons that kill tens of thousands in an instant require a lot more serious consideration before the trigger is pulled. "Little" skirmishes where there is a lot of posturing with airplanes and ships, or "shock and awe" campaigns, can apparently be started without any actual brainpower being applied. Another reason to stop those tactics. Even Bush was taken aback at the idea of using nukes.

We should make the effort to get "safer" nukes, nukes that still kill tens of thousands, but don't make the area uninhabitable for decades. We should also lower the threshold for using such weapons, so that we can actually defend ourselves with them and stop getting goaded into these situations where we agree to confront an enemy on his turf, using his rules of engagement when we have all the evidence we need that we suck at that. We should also feel free to take direct action to stop others from developing similar weapons. Jim
The best way to attempt to avoid the truth of something is to belittle and trivialize it. The truth is simple: ....
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post #45 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 06:49 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

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JimSmith - 10/25/2005 10:55 PM

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Botnst - 10/25/2005 7:38 PM

Call Bush a Nazi all you want, I didn't vote for him and he ain't kin.

I don't especially care for it when some lame-brained, knuckle-dragging cocksucker uses that name on me. But who's complaining?
Take comfort in the fact that it is your ideas, expressed on the internet in some car forum for other than car specific topics that seems to be qualifying for the label whenever that lame-brained, knuckle-dragging cocksucker, or those, lame-brained, knuckle-dragging, cocksuckers tag you with it. Not you. Who knows who any of us really are? You guys even seem to find the idea of posing in multiple personalities on the same internet forum logically viable. Beats me. Jim
Soooo sorry, Jimbeaux, there's only one of me. I tried another name on a completely virgin forum and I got outed on my second or third post. But I never used "Botnst" over there, just the wonderfully poetic, Ribulose Diphosphate, a sugar that gets phosphorolated as a result of light captured in photosynthesis.

Making sweetness of light, that's the ol'.....

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post #46 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 07:11 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

The voice of reason....

Dean: Celebrate 2,000th Iraq Death with Dignity

(2005-10-25) SNN -- Democrat National Committee Chairman Howard Dean urged party members to "restrain their joy" during nationwide celebrations of the 2,000th American fatality of the Iraq war, "out of respect for the untold thousands who have been killed by our troops."

"These American military dead are not just names on a list," Mr. Dean said. "Behind many of those names we can feel the loss of the grieving families of Arab freedom fighters who mourn their dearly-departed insurgents."

In an email to Democrat party members, Mr. Dean suggested that local celebrations of the grim milestone include "a moment of non-sectarian silence before the champagne corks start popping."

At the end of his note, the DNC chief added, "P.S. -- I hope the 2000 celebration helps us all to look forward eagerly to 2008."

"The above post does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Cap'n Carageous nor this forum. It may be presented as an attempt at humor or as a quote or paraphrase from another author. Any feelings hurt by this post are the responsibility of the reader. No animals were harmed in the making of this post." Member F.D.I.C. Tax tag and title extra.
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post #47 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 07:37 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

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Cap n Carageous - 10/26/2005 9:11 PM

The voice of reason....

Dean: Celebrate 2,000th Iraq Death with Dignity

(2005-10-25) SNN -- Democrat National Committee Chairman Howard Dean urged party members to "restrain their joy" during nationwide celebrations of the 2,000th American fatality of the Iraq war, "out of respect for the untold thousands who have been killed by our troops."

"These American military dead are not just names on a list," Mr. Dean said. "Behind many of those names we can feel the loss of the grieving families of Arab freedom fighters who mourn their dearly-departed insurgents."

In an email to Democrat party members, Mr. Dean suggested that local celebrations of the grim milestone include "a moment of non-sectarian silence before the champagne corks start popping."

At the end of his note, the DNC chief added, "P.S. -- I hope the 2000 celebration helps us all to look forward eagerly to 2008."

That is the most offensive drivel I have recently read. If this post is not totally tongue-in-cheek, I invite you to step out of the trailer. I am waiting outside, next to the Trans-Am on blocks.

No, doofus, the black one by the school-bus converted to mother in law cottage.

Come and get yours, now.
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post #48 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 07:42 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

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barberhauler - 10/26/2005 9:37 PM



That is the most offensive drivel I have recently read. If this post is not totally tongue-in-cheek, I invite you to step out of the trailer. I am waiting outside, next to the Trans-Am on blocks.

No, doofus, the black one by the school-bus converted to mother in law cottage.

Come and get yours, now.
Kiss my black ass honky!

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post #49 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 07:45 PM
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post #50 of 61 (permalink) Old 10-26-2005, 07:54 PM
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RE: US Death Toll in Iraq reaches 2,000 mark, with tens of thousands of more wounded, maimed

Quote:
Cap n Carageous - 10/26/2005 9:42 PM

Quote:
barberhauler - 10/26/2005 9:37 PM



That is the most offensive drivel I have recently read. If this post is not totally tongue-in-cheek, I invite you to step out of the trailer. I am waiting outside, next to the Trans-Am on blocks.

No, doofus, the black one by the school-bus converted to mother in law cottage.

Come and get yours, now.
Kiss my black ass honky!

Thanks, but nah.
Try this next time:
"Kiss my black ass, honky!"
Note the comma, which is necessary if your intention was to call me a honky, and invite me to kiss your black ass.
If, however, you invited me to kiss your black ass honky, then I suppose your post was gramatically correct, and confusing. See, I can't picture a black ass honky.
Now, a honky in black-face.... that likely describes several of your male descendents. Be sure to ask them at Thanksgiving how much shoe polish it took to cover their red necks.
Enquiring minds want to know.
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