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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-15-2005, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
jjl
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iraq constitution

The draft iraqi constitution : http://www.npr.org/documents/2005/au..._082605_ap.pdf

It strikes me that this is analagous to fighting the dang ruskies, occupying the Kremlin and then installing a 'democracy' based on the ideology, the 'undisputed rules' of centralised production and the abolition of private property.

Go on, tell me you think this is 'mission accomplished' and worth a gazillion dollars. More importantly, have so many died for THIS?


CHAPTER ONE: BASIC PRINCIPLES
Article (1): The Republic of Iraq is an independent, sovereign
nation, and the system of rule in it is a democratic, federal,
representative (parliamentary) republic.
Article (2):
1st - Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic
source of legislation:
(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules
of Islam.

(b) No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of
democracy.
(c) No law can be passed that contradicts the rights and basic
freedoms outlined in this constitution.



Then, again to make this clear what we are talking about:


SECOND: The Supreme Federal Court
Article (90):
1st - The Supreme Federal Court is an independent judicial body,
financially and administratively, its work and its duties will be
defined by law.


2nd - The Supreme Federal Court will be made up of a number of
judges and experts in Sharia (Islamic Law) and law, whose number
and manner of selection will be defined by a law that should be
passed by two-thirds of the parliament members.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-15-2005, 09:02 PM
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RE: iraq constitution

Quote:
jjl - 10/15/2005 10:34 PM

The draft iraqi constitution : http://www.npr.org/documents/2005/au..._082605_ap.pdf

It strikes me that this is analagous to fighting the dang ruskies, occupying the Kremlin and then installing a 'democracy' based on the ideology, the 'undisputed rules' of centralised production and the abolition of private property.

Go on, tell me you think this is 'mission accomplished' and worth a gazillion dollars. More importantly, have so many died for THIS?


CHAPTER ONE: BASIC PRINCIPLES
Article (1): The Republic of Iraq is an independent, sovereign
nation, and the system of rule in it is a democratic, federal,
representative (parliamentary) republic.
Article (2):
1st - Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic
source of legislation:
(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules
of Islam.

(b) No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of
democracy.
(c) No law can be passed that contradicts the rights and basic
freedoms outlined in this constitution.



Then, again to make this clear what we are talking about:


SECOND: The Supreme Federal Court
Article (90):
1st - The Supreme Federal Court is an independent judicial body,
financially and administratively, its work and its duties will be
defined by law.


2nd - The Supreme Federal Court will be made up of a number of
judges and experts in Sharia (Islamic Law) and law, whose number
and manner of selection will be defined by a law that should be
passed by two-thirds of the parliament members.
I think the chance of success is not too good, no matter what. I guess that's why they call it, 'compromise'.

Have you ever read the constitution of any other Islam-dominated state? I haven't. I wonder how this one compares.

B
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-15-2005, 09:39 PM
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RE: iraq constitution

Are you dissatisfied with another sovreign nation's democratically proposed constitution JJL?

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 01:35 AM
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RE: iraq constitution

wtf?? did they borrow it from saudi arabia.. i can see the islamist winning?? i bet iraqi's will soon say they want the Saddam's Bathist Secular Iraq back..especially the women..!!

soo much finance, soo many lives, soo much disturbance.. for this piece of crap.. shame america shame ..

ok this was in the end

Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

shouldnt be the copy rights held by Iraqi gov and not by the AP?>??

Fuel economy!! whats that??
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 04:56 AM
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RE: iraq constitution

Is it possible you are ignorant of the fact that our own US Constitution is a product of...gasp....compromise!?

Compromise is the stuff of democaratic governement. It is only a dirty word for autocrats.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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RE: iraq constitution

Quote:
azimuth - 10/16/2005 4:39 AM

Are you dissatisfied with another sovreign nation's democratically proposed constitution JJL?
Bluntly, yes. A 'democratically proposed constitution' is no magic formula guaranteeing sanity. A country can democratically decide to abandon democracy in favour of religious rule - see Algeria - do you think this is desirable?

A constitution based on the unassailable premise of the correctness of ancient religious laws is EXACTLY the thing that secular western governments do not want, and frankly the Iraqis too need a theocracy like a hole in the head, cf. Iran.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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RE: iraq constitution

Quote:
theboss - 10/16/2005 8:35 AM

wtf?? did they borrow it from saudi arabia.. i can see the islamist winning?? i bet iraqi's will soon say they want the Saddam's Bathist Secular Iraq back..especially the women..!!

soo much finance, soo many lives, soo much disturbance.. for this piece of crap.. shame america shame ..

ok this was in the end

Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

shouldnt be the copy rights held by Iraqi gov and not by the AP?>??
theboss, the bit at the end is there because it was translated from Arabic for The Associated Press - nothing sinister.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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RE: iraq constitution

Quote:
Botnst - 10/16/2005 4:02 AM

Have you ever read the constitution of any other Islam-dominated state? I haven't. I wonder how this one compares.

B
I haven't no, but I am now. First impressions of Turkey's constitution is that religion is explicitly limited in it's scope much more than is done in the Iraqi document.

Turkish Constitution :
http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/tu00000_.html#A001_

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 09:28 AM
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RE: iraq constitution

Quote:
jjl - 10/16/2005 10:58 AM

Quote:
Botnst - 10/16/2005 4:02 AM

Have you ever read the constitution of any other Islam-dominated state? I haven't. I wonder how this one compares.

B
I haven't no, but I am now. First impressions of Turkey's constitution is that religion is explicitly limited in it's scope much more than is done in the Iraqi document.

Turkish Constitution :
http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/tu00000_.html#A001_
Turkey is certainly a remarkable country. I think it offers the best hope of an example of an Islamic country developing into a liberal democracy without external impsoition. When did Attatruk do his thing? Nearly 100 years ago or so.

I guess the closest we have of a second country is Indonesia, but it is still very much in transition with all manner of problems unique to a giant archipelago and many different cultures.

Lebanon seems to dance with democracy every generation, then their own tribalism, influenced by external players, sends them back into anarchy.

Now Egypt seems on the verge of putting one toe into the dangerous water.

Algeria is returning to some measure of democracy having survided a hellishly bloody civil war.

Morocco is slowly moving to a hybrid monarchy-parliament, perhaps analogous to where Great Britain was 300 years ago.

Iran has some aspects of democracy in play but has that theocratic iron-fist ready to crush any movement toward modernity and actual self-rule by the people. They seem to either like it or tolerate it, though every spring the students get rebellious, as students are wont to do. Around here they go to the beach and get drunk. Over there they throw rocks at cops.

I haven't read any of their constitutions and you are right, a constitution is just wrapping paper for fish entrails unless the government and people take it seriously.

Will the people and government of Iraq take it seriously? I don't know. I think the odds, given the track record of Islamic countries, are against it but I sure hope they surpise me.

B
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2005, 04:56 PM
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RE: iraq constitution

Quote:
theboss - 10/16/2005 8:35 AM

wtf?? did they borrow it from saudi arabia.. i can see the islamist winning?? i bet iraqi's will soon say they want the Saddam's Bathist Secular Iraq back..especially the women..!!
I feel so sorry for the Women of Iraq. Sharia law was something they dreaded, now it seems to be happening.

They were educated and could dress and work pretty much as they liked. Now what?

Shame [V]
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