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post #31 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:42 PM
jjl
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/20/2005 3:32 AM

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 10:20 PM

Wait, second thought maybe that's too advanced for you. Maybe we should start with the basics...

You do know the Earth is indeed round and Goes around the sun right?
Ammonium, I hope I didn't offend you in any way beacuse that was not my intention. I was merely presenting my side. This is a Forum for discussion correct?
Again, it seems my observations were correct and that the forum is dominated too much by too few. It is great to present arguments from all sides it creates discussion and that was my intentions. Looks to be that some may not be open to it. I thank you you guys for your time so I will just linger around the other forums and leave you all be.

JC
Irvine, CA
JC please stick around and ignore the personal stuff. You sound like a nice guy and we would like to have your input. It is slightly wild west here but can be fun too.
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post #32 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:43 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/19/2005 10:32 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 10:20 PM

Wait, second thought maybe that's too advanced for you. Maybe we should start with the basics...

You do know the Earth is indeed round and Goes around the sun right?
Ammonium, I hope I didn't offend you in any way beacuse that was not my intention. I was merely presenting my side. This is a Forum for discussion correct?
Again, it seems my observations were correct and that the forum is dominated too much by too few. It is great to present arguments from all sides it creates discussion and that was my intentions. Looks to be that some may not be open to it. I thank you you guys for your time so I will just linger around the other forums and leave you all be.

JC
Irvine, CA
It insults me that someone can try to claim ID is in some kind of conflict with Evolution. The simple matter is that there is no scientific study to back up ID AT ALL. I don't know how to make it more clear than that. I don't mean to call you stupid but when you look at the facts and still choose to ignore them then I can have to call it like it is.

Talk to anyone in the scientific field and you'll get a similar responce. In my 21 years in the scientific field, at seminars, and college get togethers, never have I once heard anyone bring up ID as some kind of conflicting theory. The evidence for it simply isn't there. To suggest otherwise is insulting to me.
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post #33 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:45 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
jjl - 10/19/2005 10:42 PM

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/20/2005 3:32 AM

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 10:20 PM

Wait, second thought maybe that's too advanced for you. Maybe we should start with the basics...

You do know the Earth is indeed round and Goes around the sun right?
Ammonium, I hope I didn't offend you in any way beacuse that was not my intention. I was merely presenting my side. This is a Forum for discussion correct?
Again, it seems my observations were correct and that the forum is dominated too much by too few. It is great to present arguments from all sides it creates discussion and that was my intentions. Looks to be that some may not be open to it. I thank you you guys for your time so I will just linger around the other forums and leave you all be.

JC
Irvine, CA
JC please stick around and ignore the personal stuff. You sound like a nice guy and we would like to have your input. It is slightly wild west here but can be fun too.
Thank you jjl I enjoyed our little conversation. I think i'll sit this one out and stick to the other forums. Again, the topic was interesting but I'd like to veer away from personal attacks. Not my forte.
GermanStar thank you too and I guess you would be the person to reach if I need parts.

JC
Irvine, CA
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post #34 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:05 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 10:18 PM

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/19/2005 10:11 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 10/19/2005 9:29 PM

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/19/2005 6:20 PM

The argument is does intelligent design belong in our kids classrooms and to that I say "Yes". Science is about proposing a theory and then submitting it to scrutiny until it is proven otherwise. Those that argue against it proposes we focus on the "Evolutionary Theory" which in itself is just that a "Theory".
Scientific theories are supported by empirical evidence. If a "theory" lacks empirical evidence, it is a supposition rather than a theory. Do you have any empirical evidence to support ID? If not, it does not belong in the arena of science. Can you prove that a small green teapot isn't orbiting the sun just beyond the orbit of Saturn? Assuming that you can't, should that also be taught in science class?
Yet we teach our kids about the evolution theory. Curriculums in our public schools will swear that evidence is in the fossil records but even after hundreds of years of searching, no one has found that "missing link", which directly connects ape and man. And that is only one hole in evolution theory.

The truth of the matter is, we have two competing THEORIES here. Why are we so afraid of the theory of intelligent design being presented right next to the theory of evolution anyway? Are we afraid that kids will ask questions? Oh no! Maybe it will actually make them think instead of just accepting what their teachers tell them. What a tragedy. It might even promote discussion. We don't want that. Einstein, one of the greatest minds in history, accepts intelligent design as a possibility. Was he wrong? Stephen Hawking another one of our great minds also, cannot disprove that, "just maybe, there is a higher form of intelligence that is responsible for our Universe." These are the greatest minds of science and if you read their literature closely both mentions that neither one could have reached their pinnacle if it were not the belief of the possibility that some higher intelligence may just be responsible for the creation of our Universe.
Where is your proof that proves intelligent design is false. Start with the Big Bang theory and explain how the whole universe is expanding (already proven by the Hubble telescope), which suggests that it must have had an origin, which suggests it started from seemingly nothing.
Science is about exploring possibilities that's why people put forth THEORIES until it can be proven as a FACT. The THEORY of evolution is still not a FACT, no matter how many dinosaur bones you dig up. See, Einstein and I, who like to keep our minds open to all possibilities, don't discount any theories until we can prove that it's false. That Sir, is the foundation of Science.

JC
Irvine, CA
Please stop talking, you have no clue what you're talking about. Please provide me with one, just one, published scientific study that backed up your "Intelligent Design". I'd love to see what good stuff you come up with. Give me something factual other then mere speculation, otherwise your argument is without basis and thus moot.

No one claimed that Evolution was fact. I don't think you'll ever see that printed in any science book, EVER.

Would you believe me if I told you that Chimpanzee's share 98% of the same genetic code as humans? Wonder why?
I expect human beings to be more tolerant of competing ideas and more graceful toward those with whom we may differ, than a chimp.

B
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post #35 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:10 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
Botnst - 10/19/2005 11:05 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 10:18 PM

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/19/2005 10:11 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 10/19/2005 9:29 PM

Quote:
jomac915 - 10/19/2005 6:20 PM

The argument is does intelligent design belong in our kids classrooms and to that I say "Yes". Science is about proposing a theory and then submitting it to scrutiny until it is proven otherwise. Those that argue against it proposes we focus on the "Evolutionary Theory" which in itself is just that a "Theory".
Scientific theories are supported by empirical evidence. If a "theory" lacks empirical evidence, it is a supposition rather than a theory. Do you have any empirical evidence to support ID? If not, it does not belong in the arena of science. Can you prove that a small green teapot isn't orbiting the sun just beyond the orbit of Saturn? Assuming that you can't, should that also be taught in science class?
Yet we teach our kids about the evolution theory. Curriculums in our public schools will swear that evidence is in the fossil records but even after hundreds of years of searching, no one has found that "missing link", which directly connects ape and man. And that is only one hole in evolution theory.

The truth of the matter is, we have two competing THEORIES here. Why are we so afraid of the theory of intelligent design being presented right next to the theory of evolution anyway? Are we afraid that kids will ask questions? Oh no! Maybe it will actually make them think instead of just accepting what their teachers tell them. What a tragedy. It might even promote discussion. We don't want that. Einstein, one of the greatest minds in history, accepts intelligent design as a possibility. Was he wrong? Stephen Hawking another one of our great minds also, cannot disprove that, "just maybe, there is a higher form of intelligence that is responsible for our Universe." These are the greatest minds of science and if you read their literature closely both mentions that neither one could have reached their pinnacle if it were not the belief of the possibility that some higher intelligence may just be responsible for the creation of our Universe.
Where is your proof that proves intelligent design is false. Start with the Big Bang theory and explain how the whole universe is expanding (already proven by the Hubble telescope), which suggests that it must have had an origin, which suggests it started from seemingly nothing.
Science is about exploring possibilities that's why people put forth THEORIES until it can be proven as a FACT. The THEORY of evolution is still not a FACT, no matter how many dinosaur bones you dig up. See, Einstein and I, who like to keep our minds open to all possibilities, don't discount any theories until we can prove that it's false. That Sir, is the foundation of Science.

JC
Irvine, CA
Please stop talking, you have no clue what you're talking about. Please provide me with one, just one, published scientific study that backed up your "Intelligent Design". I'd love to see what good stuff you come up with. Give me something factual other then mere speculation, otherwise your argument is without basis and thus moot.

No one claimed that Evolution was fact. I don't think you'll ever see that printed in any science book, EVER.

Would you believe me if I told you that Chimpanzee's share 98% of the same genetic code as humans? Wonder why?
I expect human beings to be more tolerant of competing ideas and more graceful toward those with whom we may differ, than a chimp.

B
What competing idea?
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post #36 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:14 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

I agree -- there's no need to ridicule someone you disagree with. I don't agree with the argument that jomac915 was presenting, but he was certainly presenting it in a respectful manner. How boring would this place be if we all agreed on everything?

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post #37 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:30 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
GermanStar - 10/19/2005 11:14 PM

I agree -- there's no need to ridicule someone you disagree with. I don't agree with the argument that jomac915 was presenting, but he was certainly presenting it in a respectful manner. How boring would this place be if we all agreed on everything?
You think you should seriously consider someone trying to make the ID arugment? It's beyond simple disagreement. It's is ridiculous argument but to treat it like it has some kind of basis is not right. If someone were to come on here and start telling you germs didn't exist, but that God just made them sick you would all laugh and call them stupid correct?

<edited for spelling, cheers>
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post #38 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:37 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 8:30 PM

You think you should seriously consider someone trying to make the ID argument? It's beyond simple disagreement. It's is ridiculous argument but to treat it like it has some kind of basis is not right. If someone were to come on here and start telling you germs didn't exist, but that God just made them sick you would all laugh and call them stupid correct?

<edited for spelling, cheers>
Ridiculous or not, ID has substantial support. If someone wants to present their case in a respectful manner, I believe they should be treated in kind -- that's all I'm saying. This place is made better by more and not less voices -- you don't agree?

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post #39 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:45 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

And I found him/her a new avatar:

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post #40 of 102 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 10:05 PM
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RE: Assistance from intelligent design (God help us!)

Quote:
GermanStar - 10/19/2005 11:37 PM

Quote:
Ammonium - 10/19/2005 8:30 PM

You think you should seriously consider someone trying to make the ID argument? It's beyond simple disagreement. It's is ridiculous argument but to treat it like it has some kind of basis is not right. If someone were to come on here and start telling you germs didn't exist, but that God just made them sick you would all laugh and call them stupid correct?

<edited for spelling, cheers>
Ridiculous or not, ID has substantial support. If someone wants to present their case in a respectful manner, I believe they should be treated in kind -- that's all I'm saying. This place is made better by more and not less voices -- you don't agree?
Again, what substantial support? Find an article/study on ID published in a peer reviewed newspaper our journal of science, then we can have a serious discussion on Evolution vs ID. Until then the argument is without backing and a moot point. The support it does have are from peoplee too far gone and/or too religious to face reality. Believe me, I've been to the conferances. I've watched the hearing on TV in Georgia over Cathy Cox wanting to do away with Evolution from the ciriculum. This support you talk about comes from people with crosses, not lab coats and bunson bearners.

Multiple voices are good, when there is data to back them up. A voice without any backing is worthless in any kind of debate, science or otherwise.
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