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post #61 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:28 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

The problem with evoltionists and their THEORY is this:

According to science philosophy, a scientific theory becomes a scientific law when it is proved repeatedly under various different circumstances.

The problem with the theory of evolution is that it disproves itself. Because when you go back as far as you can, and keep asking the question "where did that come from?" you eventually come to a point where there is just SCIENTIFICALLY NOTHING. What made the Big Bang? Gasses? Ok, where did the gasses come from? No matter what you answer, I can just keep asking you "where did that come from?"

So the theory of evolution implodes on itself by disproving itself using it's own scientific guidelines. Not only does the theory of evolution lack proof, but it disproves itself.

Has something ever come from nothing? No. Has an explosion ever created anything? No, in fact explosions have only ever destroyed things. Science philosophy says that whenever something occurs repeatedly under various circumstances, it becomes a law. Explosions repeatedly destroy things, so the theory of evolution is Indisputably DISPROVED!

So using the guidelines for defining a 'scientific fact' it is therefore a FACT that the theory of evolution is not only implausible, but is, according to the very science it claims as its basis, impossible.

The theory STARTS OFF by ASSUMING matter and force. The closest thing to the theory of evolution being plausible would be if that assumption of matter and force, were GOD, in other words, after God caused that one-celled organism to come into existance, the rest followed by evolution (Also highly scientifically unlikely)

Now I know what you're saying, "So then where did God come from? If there is simply nothing, then where is God?"

Here's the thing: Science says "Seeing is believing". But Christians do not operate by scientific laws. They operate by spiritual laws that seem to directly contradict scientific laws. For example "Do not live by sight, but by faith. FIRST BELIEVE and then you will SEE" The same way natural laws say, "keep your money and you will make more" and spiritual laws say "be a giver, and you will make more"

So spiritual laws GOVERN scientific laws, and HENCE, do not submit under the same scientific rules.

So, though a Christian cannot explain the source of God, he doesn't have to explain God using scientific reasoning because science did not create God, God created science.

Any level headed person reading this, can now clearly see how science cannot explain the origin of things.

This leaves us in a place where we have to believe in something we cannot explain with science - God!

And some people may say that the Bible puts the earth at an age of around 5700 years.

So stop arguing litle issues like prophecy and the missing link and the earth's age. Focus on the overall governing issue: Science PROVES ITSELF impossible to have been the origin of things, and that leaves SOMETHING supernatural, that though we cannot explain it, is the only explanation that doesn't disqualify itself.

P.S. Don't judge religion by the people the follow it. Particularly, don't judge Christ or Christianity by the people that call themselves Christians. If you sleep in a bakery, you don't become a loaf of bread. So going to church doesn't make you a Christian. You are a Christian if you firstly believe in Christ as the Son of God, comfess that you believe in Christ as the Son of God, and then act like Christ.

PPS. Contrary to popular opinion, the Bible is not a rule book. It's mostly a guide book. "All things are permissible for me, but not all things are profitiable!"

Ricardo
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post #62 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:43 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

You seem to have made a grievous error in your line of reasoning. Allow me to point out that origin and evolution are two distinct issues. Your attempt to merge them in order to discredit evolution is entirely fallacious. Please allow me to reiterate -- evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life.

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post #63 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:46 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 10:41 PM

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 7:32 PM

No he's not guilty of defining God. He was stating what the Bible says about God, that he is all-knowing. Nothing wrong with that.
The Bible says a great many things. Do you believe them all, or just the one's you find credible?
I find everything the Bible says more credible than a theory that disproves itself.

The point, if you were paying attention, was that he had a basis for his statement.


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post #64 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:48 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 11:28 PM

The problem with evoltionists and their THEORY is this:

According to science philosophy, a scientific theory becomes a scientific law when it is proved repeatedly under various different circumstances.
...
The one certain thing in science is that it doesn't claim certitude, it claims reliability.

For example, Aristotlean natural laws worked great until man had devised measurement methods capable of calling those laws into question. Newton offered the new paradigm that finally buried Aristotlean laws. But in the real world of most non-mechanical things, Aristotle still works just fine. But when you become mechanical, call Newton.

Newton's three laws worked for hundreds of years. the world was convinced that newtonian mechancis would ultimated describe the universe. Those laws worked just fine for all things mechanical. Nearly everything in our present world is devised because of Newtonian mechanics. That is, until you get to the verrry small or the verrry large or the verrry fast. Then Newton fails, creating paradoxes that can only be addresed through Einsteins Laws.

Einsteins Laws work great until you get to the ittiest, bittiest and most extremely energetic, then you have to drop Albert and pick up....nobody knows.....yet.

In other words, every thing, every construct, every theory, every 'law' of science is open for challenge and destruction or re-affirmation. That is the whole point of the scientific method--to challenge the known and search the unknown. The point of science is NOT to maintain the status quo, to defend the faith. It is to challenge the current paradigm and in so doing, reaffirm or reject it.

Belief in God is not antithetical to science, unless your belief in God makes it so. Pursuit of science is not negation of God, it is explanation of the previously unknown or clarification of what was previously poorly understood.

Evolution is most likely true in most of its details. The proof is nearly self-evident, if one has the patience to understand the proof. If you are intersted, I suggest you read a deeply religious, Christian man and scientists view of science. Look for Tielhard de Chardin in your library. Or Jean Paul, Pope of Rome, who opined in one of his last encyclicals that there was no conflict between evolution and Creation.

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post #65 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:48 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 8:46 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 10:41 PM

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 7:32 PM

No he's not guilty of defining God. He was stating what the Bible says about God, that he is all-knowing. Nothing wrong with that.
The Bible says a great many things. Do you believe them all, or just the one's you find credible?
I find everything the Bible says more credible than a theory that disproves itself.

The point, if you were paying attention, was that he had a basis for his statement.

Which he made a personal choice to believe.

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 8:28 PM

Contrary to popular opinion, the Bible is not a rule book. It's mostly a guide book.
Thank you for making my point.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #66 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:49 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 11:43 PM

You seem to have made a grievous error in your line of reasoning. Allow me to point out that origin and evolution are two distinct issues. Your attempt to merge them in order to discredit evolution is entirely fallacious. Please allow me to reiterate -- evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life.
...Because there is no way that it can.

And I think you're mistaken, because evolution is just part of the process which attempts to explain the origin of life.

I like the short reply, because let's face it, you can't really argue the fact that science disproves itself as the source of life.
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post #67 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:54 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 8:49 PM

And I think you're mistaken, because evolution is just part of the process which attempts to explain the origin of life.
Can you provide some evidence to support this claim? I assume that you've read the Origin of Species, since you claim to be an expert. What passage in the book refers to the origin of life? I have a copy here, so I can check your reference rather quickly.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #68 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:54 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
Botnst - 9/20/2005 11:48 PM

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 11:28 PM

The problem with evoltionists and their THEORY is this:

According to science philosophy, a scientific theory becomes a scientific law when it is proved repeatedly under various different circumstances.
...
The one certain thing in science is that it doesn't claim certitude, it claims reliability.

For example, Aristotlean natural laws worked great until man had devised measurement methods capable of calling those laws into question. Newton offered the new paradigm that finally buried Aristotlean laws. But in the real world of most non-mechanical things, Aristotle still works just fine. But when you become mechanical, call Newton.

Newton's three laws worked for hundreds of years. the world was convinced that newtonian mechancis would ultimated describe the universe. Those laws worked just fine for all things mechanical. Nearly everything in our present world is devised because of Newtonian mechanics. That is, until you get to the verrry small or the verrry large or the verrry fast. Then Newton fails, creating paradoxes that can only be addresed through Einsteins Laws.

Einsteins Laws work great until you get to the ittiest, bittiest and most extremely energetic, then you have to drop Albert and pick up....nobody knows.....yet.

In other words, every thing, every construct, every theory, every 'law' of science is open for challenge and destruction or re-affirmation. That is the whole point of the scientific method--to challenge the known and search the unknown. The point of science is NOT to maintain the status quo, to defend the faith. It is to challenge the current paradigm and in so doing, reaffirm or reject it.

Belief in God is not antithetical to science, unless your belief in God makes it so. Pursuit of science is not negation of God, it is explanation of the previously unknown or clarification of what was previously poorly understood.

Evolution is most likely true in most of its details. The proof is nearly self-evident, if one has the patience to understand the proof. If you are intersted, I suggest you read a deeply religious, Christian man and scientists view of science. Look for Tielhard de Chardin in your library. Or Jean Paul, Pope of Rome, who opined in one of his last encyclicals that there was no conflict between evolution and Creation.

Bot
I have no problem with the idea that there is no conflict between Creation and evolution. Because the moment you factor Creation into it, you are sying God exists, and science cannot explain everything.

I don't deny for a second that science plays a major role in things.
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post #69 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 10:01 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 11:48 PM

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 8:46 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 10:41 PM

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 7:32 PM

No he's not guilty of defining God. He was stating what the Bible says about God, that he is all-knowing. Nothing wrong with that.
The Bible says a great many things. Do you believe them all, or just the one's you find credible?
I find everything the Bible says more credible than a theory that disproves itself.

The point, if you were paying attention, was that he had a basis for his statement.

Which he made a personal choice to believe.

Nonetheless, that was his basis. Hence he was not doing the same as the previous guy by trying to put God in a box.

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 8:28 PM

Contrary to popular opinion, the Bible is not a rule book. It's mostly a guide book.
Thank you for making my point.
Like I said, focus on the overall issue. Not only can science not explain, it thoroughly disproves itself as the sole explanation, leaving something other than science. You're arguing little issues, which forms your basis for not believing in God. Simplify it by staying on the governing issue, and staying away from the litle semantics. When you come to terms with the truth, the little issues work themselves out much easier.
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post #70 of 273 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 10:04 PM
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RE: God? and stuff....

Quote:
Gert123456 - 9/20/2005 9:01 PM

Like I said, focus on the overall issue. Not only can science not explain, it thoroughly disproves itself as the sole explanation, leaving something other than science. You're arguing little issues, which forms your basis for not believing in God. Simplify it by staying on the governing issue, and staying away from the litle semantics. When you come to terms with the truth, the little issues work themselves out much easier.
No one here is discussing or arguing the source of life except you. Have you read Don Quixote?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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