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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 05:45 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Nothing could be more annoying than that guy who took the boy scouts to the supreme court over the scouts honor. I couldn't care less about peoples religion or lack thereof........Just don't screw with tradition.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 06:54 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Quote:
ThrillKill - 9/15/2005 11:58 AM

Quote:
kvining - 9/15/2005 10:07 AM

Jingoistic religious chants forced on children by rightwing nutcases should be outlawed.
Total waste of money, time and effort. No kid gives a shit if we're one nation under God or one nation under Evel Knievel. In fact until 6th grade, I thought "pledgealliegance" was one word. By the time I realized what I was reciting, I was numb to it.
That reminds me of my 7 year old, who thought God's name was Art. When I asked him to explain to me how he knew God's first name, he told me he was "Our Father, Art, in Heaven".

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 06:59 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Quote:
MS Fowler - 9/15/2005 7:32 PM

What is the deal?
As far as I know NO ONE is forced/coerced into saying the pledge. School teachers that I know require only a silence in lieu of saying the pledge. I think the argument is a little like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
If you, or your precious off spring are offended by the pledge, then by all means, do not soil your lips with the words.
You guys make every issue seem like the end of the world. sheessshh
Now,confining someone without being charged? (i.e. the Joesph Padilla case)--Thats an issue that should enrage you and me and everyone. Post a plan of action to get that overturned and I'm with you.
But this BS over the pledge --is just a tempest in a teapot.
Coerced or not is not the issue. The issue is simple and clear. The US Constitution states that Congress "may make no law regarding the establishment of religion". The purpose of this is to keep kooks from shoving your -er, I mean their, religion down the throats of people who don't want it by using government to do so. Congress, by passing a law requiring that all school teachers must lead this religious chant, has made a law that is in regards to the establishment of religion, and a law that requires government employees to lead and execute its enforcement. It is so clearly unconstitutional that the Supreme Court knows it has to decide against it if it reaches its desk, and that the precedent it sets when it does so will kill off all the religious trappings that the right wing has adorned government with for the last sixty years or so. They have repeatedly sent it back on technicalities, hoping, like you, that it will just go away. It will not. Hardly a tempest in a tea pot. If you want to chant to your God, do it in a church, and stay the hell out of the school I send my kids to.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 08:37 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Quote:
kvining - 9/15/2005 8:59 PM

Quote:
MS Fowler - 9/15/2005 7:32 PM

What is the deal?
As far as I know NO ONE is forced/coerced into saying the pledge. School teachers that I know require only a silence in lieu of saying the pledge. I think the argument is a little like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
If you, or your precious off spring are offended by the pledge, then by all means, do not soil your lips with the words.
You guys make every issue seem like the end of the world. sheessshh
Now,confining someone without being charged? (i.e. the Joesph Padilla case)--Thats an issue that should enrage you and me and everyone. Post a plan of action to get that overturned and I'm with you.
But this BS over the pledge --is just a tempest in a teapot.
Coerced or not is not the issue. The issue is simple and clear. The US Constitution states that Congress "may make no law regarding the establishment of religion". The purpose of this is to keep kooks from shoving your -er, I mean their, religion down the throats of people who don't want it by using government to do so. Congress, by passing a law requiring that all school teachers must lead this religious chant, has made a law that is in regards to the establishment of religion, and a law that requires government employees to lead and execute its enforcement. It is so clearly unconstitutional that the Supreme Court knows it has to decide against it if it reaches its desk, and that the precedent it sets when it does so will kill off all the religious trappings that the right wing has adorned government with for the last sixty years or so. They have repeatedly sent it back on technicalities, hoping, like you, that it will just go away. It will not. Hardly a tempest in a tea pot. If you want to chant to your God, do it in a church, and stay the hell out of the school I send my kids to.
Yeah, that ol' Constitution is packed full of stuff nobody listens to. We just use it as a sort of suggestion. I mean if folks took it literally, all of it, where would we be?

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-16-2005, 12:12 AM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

It is impossible to remove all religious thought froma culture. The statement " There is no God" is every bit as much of a religious statement as " One nation under God". Your religion is that there is no God. You have the effrontery to try to force your religion on everyone else. How is your position different from those who would keep the Pledge?
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-16-2005, 12:25 AM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

that's good news. i really hope the $ and c are next. i really hope we officially go back to the original version of the pledge. http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

or:
Quote:
I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under FSM, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.



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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-16-2005, 09:29 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Quote:
mzsmbs - 9/16/2005 2:25 AM

that's good news. i really hope the $ and c are next. i really hope we officially go back to the original version of the pledge. http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

or:
Quote:
I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under FSM, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
It's been in the current, widely embraced form for 50 years. How long does something have to be around and widely accepted before one accepts version 2.0?

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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-16-2005, 09:49 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Quote:
kvining - 9/15/2005 7:54 PM

Quote:
ThrillKill - 9/15/2005 11:58 AM

Quote:
kvining - 9/15/2005 10:07 AM

Jingoistic religious chants forced on children by rightwing nutcases should be outlawed.
Total waste of money, time and effort. No kid gives a shit if we're one nation under God or one nation under Evel Knievel. In fact until 6th grade, I thought "pledgealliegance" was one word. By the time I realized what I was reciting, I was numb to it.
That reminds me of my 7 year old, who thought God's name was Art. When I asked him to explain to me how he knew God's first name, he told me he was "Our Father, Art, in Heaven".
My kid said "Government Pinscher" until he was 14. He started saying it when he was tiny and we thought it so adorable that we didn't correct him. Maybe that's what happened to the prez?

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-17-2005, 12:09 PM
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RE: Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

Quote:
MS Fowler - 9/16/2005 2:12 AM

It is impossible to remove all religious thought froma culture. The statement " There is no God" is every bit as much of a religious statement as " One nation under God". Your religion is that there is no God. You have the effrontery to try to force your religion on everyone else. How is your position different from those who would keep the Pledge?
I have no desire to push my religion down your throat. In fact instead of saying to you "there is no God", I am saying to you "your God is none of my fucking business, and my God is none of your fucking business, and I prefer to keep it that way, so yours keep it away from my kid". I wish to force you to do nothing, except to keep your religion where it belongs, out of my kid's face, so I have the right to teach him what I wish, without the interferance from the Magical Thinking set. You stay out of my business, I'll stay out of yours. What right do you have to claim you can use the school system that MY TAX DOLLARS SUPPORT to push your mumbo jumbo? Go to church and do it, and leave the rest of us alone. I have a constitutional right to this, guaranteed in the First Amendment, and I am sick of it being violated every day by a bunch of religious fascists who think they have a right to interfere in the upbringing of my children. School is a government function. Religion cannot be part of a government function except in very limited ways. It is coercive in nature, and seeks to impose a majority viewpoint on those who do not want it. It needs to go.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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