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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 10:52 AM
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Posse Comitatus Act


Section 1385 of Title 18, United States Code (USC), states:
“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.�
The PCA does not apply to the U.S. Coast Guard in peacetime or to the National Guard in Title 32 or State Active Duty status. The substantive prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) were extended to all the services with the enactment of Title 10 USC, Section 375. As required by Title 10 USC, Section 375 the secretary of defense issued Department of Defense Directive 5525.5, which precludes members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps from direct participation in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
The PCA generally prohibits U.S. military personnel from direct participation in law enforcement activities. Some of those law enforcement activities would include interdicting vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; conducting surveillance, searches, pursuit and seizures; or making arrests on behalf of civilian law enforcement authorities. Prohibiting direct military involvement in law enforcement is in keeping with long-standing U.S. law and policy limiting the military’s role in domestic affairs.
The United States Congress has enacted a number of exceptions to the PCA that allow the military, in certain situations, to assist civilian law enforcement agencies in enforcing the laws of the U.S. The most common example is counterdrug assistance (Title 10 USC, Sections 371-381). Other examples include:
· The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC, Sections 331-335). This act allows the president to use U.S. military personnel at the request of a state legislature or governor to suppress insurrections. It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.
· Assistance in the case of crimes involving nuclear materials (Title 18 USC, Section 831). This statute permits DoD personnel to assist the Justice Department in enforcing prohibitions regarding nuclear materials, when the attorney general and the secretary of defense jointly determine that an “emergency situation� exists that poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and is beyond the capability of civilian law enforcement agencies.
· Emergency situations involving chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction (Title 10 USC, Section 382). When the attorney general and the secretary of defense jointly determine that an “emergency situation� exists that poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and is beyond the capability of civilian law enforcement agencies. DoD personnel may assist the Justice Department in enforcing prohibitions regarding biological or chemical weapons of mass destruction.
Military support to civilian law enforcement is carried out in strict compliance with the Constitution and U.S. laws and under the direction of the president and secretary of defense.
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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 12:31 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

The governor activated 8,000 guardsmen several days before the strike, I think it was Friday evening. There were only about 500 or so in NOLA. The rest were staged in the cities where they ordinarily drill. Before they deployed, they had to know where to deploy and they had to have a mission. Those orders come down teh chain of command, the top of which is the governor.

Those forces did not get into the city in force until Saturday after the storm. I don't know why and that is a question that should be asked of the state government.

The USCG is a small outfit. They are deployed over the whole USA in small units and they are on vessels at sea. I saw a cutter anchored off the French Quarter on Friday. They have several teams of well-armed and very disciplined Coast Guardsmen ashore that escorted S&R teams (like mine). No thug would mess with those guys. But they were NOT deployed for LE. The entire USCG is too small to secure NOLA and they have other duties nationwide which they would have to drop.

Why didn't Bush ignore posse comitatus and just go for it--effect rescue and screw the constitution? Would that be a good idea?

Don't misunderstand, the fed is far from blameless and I think a shitload of responsibility for the uncoordinated and slow response accrues to execs in FEMA. I hope they sleep well.

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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 03:11 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

I want to commend those who participated in the relief. About all my family and I were able to do was donate to the Red Cross. It is also refreshing to see people aware of how miserable the government's initial response was, and not allowing personal politics cloud that awareness. I hope this catastrophe serves as a wake-up call and the "responsible" officials are held to account; it seems too much to hope for I fear.

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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 04:50 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

Quote:
old300D - 9/6/2005 5:11 PM

I want to commend those who participated in the relief. About all my family and I were able to do was donate to the Red Cross. It is also refreshing to see people aware of how miserable the government's initial response was, and not allowing personal politics cloud that awareness. I hope this catastrophe serves as a wake-up call and the "responsible" officials are held to account; it seems too much to hope for I fear.
Amen to that. I hope we have an investigative committee that is less concerned about getting along with each other (a la 9/11 Commission) and more about head-hunting for for those responsible. But I also want them to be wise and careful. I hope that kind of commitee is possible.

I nominate Sandra Day O'Connor to chair it. I like Harold Ford, a careful, smart man. Maybe Colin Powell? Gary Hart? Who else?
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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 05:05 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

Jeb Bush














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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 06:14 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

I second that. And please my other post on Fat Boy Jeb.

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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Posse Comitatus Act

Quote:
Alfa - 9/6/2005 12:52 PM


Section 1385 of Title 18, United States Code (USC), states:
“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.�
The PCA does not apply to the U.S. Coast Guard in peacetime or to the National Guard in Title 32 or State Active Duty status. The substantive prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) were extended to all the services with the enactment of Title 10 USC, Section 375. As required by Title 10 USC, Section 375 the secretary of defense issued Department of Defense Directive 5525.5, which precludes members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps from direct participation in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
The PCA generally prohibits U.S. military personnel from direct participation in law enforcement activities. Some of those law enforcement activities would include interdicting vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; conducting surveillance, searches, pursuit and seizures; or making arrests on behalf of civilian law enforcement authorities. Prohibiting direct military involvement in law enforcement is in keeping with long-standing U.S. law and policy limiting the military’s role in domestic affairs.
The United States Congress has enacted a number of exceptions to the PCA that allow the military, in certain situations, to assist civilian law enforcement agencies in enforcing the laws of the U.S. The most common example is counterdrug assistance (Title 10 USC, Sections 371-381). Other examples include:
· The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC, Sections 331-335). This act allows the president to use U.S. military personnel at the request of a state legislature or governor to suppress insurrections. It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.
· Assistance in the case of crimes involving nuclear materials (Title 18 USC, Section 831). This statute permits DoD personnel to assist the Justice Department in enforcing prohibitions regarding nuclear materials, when the attorney general and the secretary of defense jointly determine that an “emergency situation� exists that poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and is beyond the capability of civilian law enforcement agencies.
· Emergency situations involving chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction (Title 10 USC, Section 382). When the attorney general and the secretary of defense jointly determine that an “emergency situation� exists that poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and is beyond the capability of civilian law enforcement agencies. DoD personnel may assist the Justice Department in enforcing prohibitions regarding biological or chemical weapons of mass destruction.
Military support to civilian law enforcement is carried out in strict compliance with the Constitution and U.S. laws and under the direction of the president and secretary of defense.
I laugh at you. I sneer at you. I wave my bare ass at you. We should all sit around and quote law books at each other while people are dying? Nothing explains better why the right wing should not run this country than that. Using obscure laws to excuse themselves for letting people die. Not only does the Federal government have broad powers of national emergency that supercedes Posse Comitatus, it has complete jurisdiction over inland waterways that traverse statelines. Since you happened to miss a little detail, let me point it out - the entire City of New Orleans became part of the Mississippi River and Lake Poncho and was therefore under total Federal Jurisdiction. End of story. GB's problem. The fucking Navy could have done manuevers in Algiers and not violated the fucking Posse Comitatus. They could have shelled the Superdome, totally legally, if they fucking felt like it, cuz the fucking thing was now sitting smack dab in the middle of their fucking river. A frigging Marine landing, Iwo Jima style, on the Convention Center, no sweat. And fuck the Governor. Throw the bitch in irons if she shows up. No sweat. They could have parked the 7th Fleet on Bourbon Street, perfectly legal. Instead, they couldn't even spare a rowboat.

In any case, the Federal government need simply declare those jurisdictional rights and let the lawyers sort it out later if it means saving lives. The Defense Department could have simply stated that the levee break threatened the integrity of the nation's defenses on the Mississippi and the Gulf Coast by danger of domestic unrest. Rumsfeld could have been the Guiliani of this thing, instead he was the usual total turd. Not to mention the fact the Army Corp of Engineers is the people who actually hold real title to the damn levees, never mind who administer them.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 07:16 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

Which banana republic were you kicked out of most recently?

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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The longest three days of my life

The one where they don't let poor black people die just because they are poor and black.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 07:31 PM
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RE: The longest three days of my life

BUHAHAHAHHAHA! Boy you guys really need a life. After a two week sabbatical I get back and you wacko's are right on target. Even a Hurricane becomes the administrations fault. Yeah it was all because the National Guard was away from home... Where did I hear that one before?
HAHAHAHAHA!
I just spent 10 days in Europe and I guess they are actually going to pitch in some cash for our miseries. Lot's of good news coming from there including Chirac being hospitalized. Jihadist are praising the Hurricane saying it was brought about by Allah to punish Bush. LOL! Funny how you guys here are starting to sound like those idiots.
Which again leads me to wonder why in the world do you continue to reside in this country?
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