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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-24-2005, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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another argument for retroactive abortion

I defy you to read this (long) article and not bite your knuckles.


http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=6992
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-24-2005, 09:24 PM
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

The whole affair with the tube bombs brought to mind a movie I saw about 5 or 6 yrs ago about young Muslim radicals in northern England. It was called, 'My Son the Fanatic'. I didn't suspect at the time what the result would be.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-24-2005, 09:49 PM
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

Imposing Britishness is a solution? I think that's what the French are trying in France. How is that working for them?

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

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kerry edwards - 8/25/2005 4:24 AM

The whole affair with the tube bombs brought to mind a movie I saw about 5 or 6 yrs ago about young Muslim radicals in northern England. It was called, 'My Son the Fanatic'. I didn't suspect at the time what the result would be.
Yes, and from what I know of this there will be a great deal more. All inspired by the religion of peace. Oh, I forgot, these are BAD Muslims, although their knowledge of scripture seems remarkably good; strange, eh?

These guys are a 5th column in our midst. Let's discuss civil liberties while they plan their next outrage, or wring our hands about 'inclusiveness'.

If you read the article you will see that this guy exposes the poverty of the left's analysis that the problem is economic; the chattering class on the left is terrified of being tarred with the same brush (racists, cultural imperialists) as the far-right that they can only understand this in terms of left-right politics, when it is actually about ideology; the islamists are straightforward in saying that democracy is wrong, personal freedom is wrong, and critcial thinking is wrong. This is why democracy in Iraq will fail, too.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 05:47 AM
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

This should be reason enough.......
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 07:28 AM
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

Quote:
jjl - 8/25/2005 7:30 AM

Quote:
kerry edwards - 8/25/2005 4:24 AM

The whole affair with the tube bombs brought to mind a movie I saw about 5 or 6 yrs ago about young Muslim radicals in northern England. It was called, 'My Son the Fanatic'. I didn't suspect at the time what the result would be.
Yes, and from what I know of this there will be a great deal more. All inspired by the religion of peace. Oh, I forgot, these are BAD Muslims, although their knowledge of scripture seems remarkably good; strange, eh?

These guys are a 5th column in our midst. Let's discuss civil liberties while they plan their next outrage, or wring our hands about 'inclusiveness'.

If you read the article you will see that this guy exposes the poverty of the left's analysis that the problem is economic; the chattering class on the left is terrified of being tarred with the same brush (racists, cultural imperialists) as the far-right that they can only understand this in terms of left-right politics, when it is actually about ideology; the islamists are straightforward in saying that democracy is wrong, personal freedom is wrong, and critcial thinking is wrong. This is why democracy in Iraq will fail, too.
Theodore Dalrymple wrote a piece about a year ago supporting your point on the basis of his experience with immigrant youth in British prisons. I don't know if I can find the link anymore, but I'll look.
I think it's also why Christopher Hitchens abandoned the left after 9/11.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 01:57 PM
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

Here's the Dalrymple piece:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

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kerry edwards - 8/26/2005 8:57 PM

Here's the Dalrymple piece:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html
Thanks, that was beautifully written. However, I'm not sure he is correct in thinking that the extremists are a 'tiny minority'. Here are some stats from a recent survey of British Muslims following the recent murders:

Muslims who see the 7/7 bombing attacks in London as justified on balance: 6 percent.

Who feel sympathy for the "feelings and motives" of those who carried out the 7/7 attacks: 24 percent.

Understand "why some people behave in that way": 56 percent.

Disagree with Tony Blair's description of the ideology of the London bombers as "perverted and poisonous": 26 percent.

Feel not loyal towards Britain: 16 percent.

Agree that "Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end": 32 percent willing to use non-violent means and (as noted above) 1 percent willing to use violence "if necessary." Just 56 percent of Muslims agree with the statement that "Western society may not be perfect but Muslims should live with it and not seek to bring it to an end."

Agree that "British political leaders don't mean it when they talk about equality. They regard the lives of white British people as more valuable than the lives of British Muslims": 52 percent.

Dismiss political party leaders as insincere when saying "they respect Islam and want to co-operate with Britain's Muslim communities": 50 percent.

Doubt that anyone charged with and tried for the 7/7 attacks would receive a fair trial: 44 percent.

Would not inform on a Muslim religious leader "trying to 'radicalise' young Muslims by preaching hatred against the West": 10 percent.

Do not think people have a duty to go to the police if they "see something in the community that makes them feel suspicious": 14 percent.

Believe other Muslims would be reluctant to go to the police "about anything they see that makes them suspicious": 41 percent.

Would inform the police if they believed they knew about the possible planning of a terrorist attack: 73 percent. (In this case, the Daily Telegraph did not make available the negative percentage.)

see http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2797
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 05:02 PM
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

I'm generally pretty sceptical of Pipes' data. I've heard him speak and he had a clear disdain for all things Muslim, even to the extent of cutting off reasonable questions from obvious Muslims in the audience. It seemed to me he had an axe to grind and was making a good living grinding it.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-25-2005, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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RE: another argument for retroactive abortion

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kerry edwards - 8/26/2005 12:02 AM

I'm generally pretty sceptical of Pipes' data. I've heard him speak and he had a clear disdain for all things Muslim, even to the extent of cutting off reasonable questions from obvious Muslims in the audience. It seemed to me he had an axe to grind and was making a good living grinding it.
The data is not Pipes', but from a recent YouGov survey commisioned for the UK's Daily Telegraph - I knew of the survey (but not of Pipes - he may well be as you describe) and choose the first link with a summary of the results. Here is another link to an Islamic site with another summary of the same data:

http://www.islam.com/reply.asp?id=592190&ct=9&mn=592190
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