Colin Powell claims he was given fabricated information by Bush cabal - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 05:35 PM
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If we avoid the whole war on two fronts thing, we may yet succeed where German failed. What about our WMDs? Are they OK?
Yes. They are OK. They have saved millions of lives and prevented the forward march of humanity crushing Sovietism.

Weapons are not inherently evil.

Is the gun in the hand of a man protecting his family from harm OK? What about the same gun in the hands of a serial killer?

There is most definitely not a moral equivalency that can be drawn between all governments, cultures, peoples, individuals, and philosophies.

Maybe my background of growing up in an area where violent, scary people preyed upon others on a daily basis has blunted my compassion towards folks who want to hurt me. They say a liberal is a conservative who has never been mugged, but I have liberal friends whose self loathing is so strong that an occasional beating simply assuages some of their guilt and leads them to wring their hands and ask why they are hated.

We have WMDs and have the power to deploy them. Yet we don't. We face any enemy that will use them against us as soon as they have the ability. Do you see a difference? Or is everything just a gray mosaic?

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post #62 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 05:38 PM
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Ultimately, I think that there enough people in this country willing to wait until we are attacked again before they demand any action. I can only hope that my family will not be among the dead and that I have chosen a safe place to live.

I think the decision to not act has been made. I don't subscribe to the had wringing "Why do they hate us?" philosophy, by the way.

Do you think that Israel's attack on the Osirak nuclear plant in Iraq in 1981 was warranted? Just curious.
Dave, I agree about the pro-active part when I am convinced that whenever we need to attack someone that we have been justified to do so under reasonably clear intent or action of some foe to harm us.
When we readied ourselves for Iraq we were told and this I remember clearly that “we” had secret evidence that Iraq harbored Al Qaeda and that the WMD threat was not only real but was in its advance stages to be deployed. Our administration used the 911 momentum to slip the word secret as Vaseline up our asses and we took it smiling and waving flags and stuff. Everyone was hyping the threat but not a single media outlet or analyst tried to tackle the aftermath of an invasion in terms of occupation or post occupation. Do you know why? We were sold another set of goods where we were told that the Iraqis are going to be like lame sheep welcoming us and letting us fk them in the ass too. Just look at how many companies lined up to take care of that issue as we rattled our sabers and demonized all of those ayhab the ayrabs. It was cool because we could for once be racist and get away with it since “they” brought on us 911, why do they hate us so?
That racism carried over when we invaded. Some of our soldiers took it upon themselves and sometimes even from higher up orders to tarnish our image many folds. Nothing was going our way once we took over that place. We lost the whatever fake and fragile trust we had with the population at the scene and managed to make Iraq a recruiting center for jihadists and other mofos.

About Osirak, yeah that was a good call so don’t get me wrong I don’t see all of Israel’s actions as wrong. The wrong actions that I am calling are the ones that will eventually destroy Israel. There was no need for Netanyahu to feed the fire for us to attack Iraq using 911 as an excuse. He is still using that same bullshit now on Iran. I am not saying that Iran is an angel but I am surely not going to agree on striking Iran just because Netanyahu said so. He used us Dave just like the rest of the neocons that he worked with and the stupidity of our administration for not seeing right through this game.
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post #63 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 05:39 PM
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Idiot, Iraq never attacked you or your family!. The people responsible for 9/11 still breathe however.
No shit, dumb ass?

Milosevic never attacked yours.

Fucking moron.
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post #64 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
We have WMDs and have the power to deploy them. Yet we don't. <-- Yet we have We face any enemy that will use them against us as soon as they have the ability. Do you see a difference? Or is everything just a gray mosaic?
How many times has the U.S. mainland been attacked with WMDs? I'm sorry, but your stance seems a paranoid fantasy. I know you think the Iraq WMD issue is/was important. I do not. Iraq has never had the means to deliver WMDs to the mainland U.S., even if it so desired, which it most certainly did not, since the result would be tantamount to suicide. Charging at windmills is not the answer, my friend. Creating an enemy out of thin air as a focal point is a tactic of militaristic fascism, and that is precisely what the Bush administration has done. Iraqnophobia -- surely there must be a cure...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #65 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 05:55 PM
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Dave, I agree about the pro-active part when I am convinced that whenever we need to attack someone that we have been justified to do so under reasonably clear intent or action of some foe to harm us.
.
Well I believed that those criteria had been met when we invaded. Now I am not so sure. Hindsight should be enlightening, of course. As time goes by, more becomes clear.

My concern is that the only "reasonably clear intent or action" acceptable to many on the left is a smoking hole in the ground.

Daniel Pearl's father doesn't find his headless son to be enough of an indication for him. I can't let people who share his world view be charged with the "common defense" of my country.
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post #66 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
Well I believed that those criteria had been met when we invaded. Now I am not so sure. Hindsight should be enlightening, of course. As time goes by, more becomes clear.

My concern is that the only "reasonably clear intent or action" acceptable to many on the left is a smoking hole in the ground.

Daniel Pearl's father doesn't find his headless son to be enough of an indication for him. I can't let people who share his world view be charged with the "common defense" of my country.
Again, you are playing the media game. Don't mix up Daniel Pearl who got murdered in Pakistan with Iraq.
When Israel attacked Iraq's nuclear plant there was real intelligence from Mosad about what was going on in there. In my opinion they attacked that plant not because they were worried about an Iraqi attack since Saddam was a puppet for the US at that time but because they wanted to make sure that eventually they had no negotiating zone in case Iraq and Israel sat a table to discuss the future of the Middle East after Iran's demise. Think about it, aside from Egypt these two would have been the strongest players.
From reading your response again I get the impression that you are still hoping that we find WMD, it must be sad to not have found them huh?

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post #67 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
Ultimately, I think that there enough people in this country willing to wait until we are attacked again before they demand any action. I can only hope that my family will not be among the dead and that I have chosen a safe place to live.
So we were attacked and instead of getting the parties involved we invaded an innocent country and killed hundreds of thousands of people. This makes sense to you?. What do you mean by "people in this country willing to wait until we are attacked again before they demand any action"?. People went along with the Iraq War because they were told that there was a Hussein/Bin Laden connection, they agreed because Sadam had mobile nuclear laboratories and the cylindrical tubes used for nukes. Lets not forget the "yellow cake" that Sadam ordered up to kill Americans. Instilling fear worked like a charm for this administration. All god damn lies and you still sit here and somehow try to make sense of it and still taking the blame off Bush. Your "seemed like a good idea at the time" mentality is sickening cause you still think it was a good idea. You do show signs of jumping ship now because its cool for Republicans to hate on Bush at the moment. Sheep.
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post #68 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DestroyerW140
So we were attacked and instead of getting the parties involved we invaded an innocent country and killed hundreds of thousands of people. This makes sense to you?. What do you mean by "people in this country willing to wait until we are attacked again before they demand any action"?. People went along with the Iraq War because they were told that there was a Hussein/Bin Laden connection, they agreed because Sadam had mobile nuclear laboratories and the cylindrical tubes used for nukes. Lets not forget the "yellow cake" that Sadam ordered up to kill Americans. Instilling fear worked like a charm for this administration. All god damn lies and you still sit here and somehow try to make sense of it and still taking the blame off Bush. Your "seemed like a good idea at the time" mentality is sickening cause you still think it was a good idea. You do show signs of jumping ship now because its cool for Republicans to hate on Bush at the moment. Sheep.
We went there because our administration managed to inderectly link 911 to Iraq for popular consumption. Yes we are that stupid. This is exactly why we are called red necks.

Here is an article by Pat Buchanan from way back in March of 2003
http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

here are some parts of the article:
Quote:
Whose War?

A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.

by Patrick J. Buchanan

The War Party may have gotten its war. But it has also gotten something it did not bargain for. Its membership lists and associations have been exposed and its motives challenged. In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put this question directly to Richard Perle: “Can you assure American viewers ... that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”

Suddenly, the Israeli connection is on the table, and the War Party is not amused. Finding themselves in an unanticipated firefight, our neoconservative friends are doing what comes naturally, seeking student deferments from political combat by claiming the status of a persecuted minority group. People who claim to be writing the foreign policy of the world superpower, one would think, would be a little more manly in the schoolyard of politics. Not so.

.....
On Sept. 15, according to Bob Woodward’s Bush at War, “Paul Wolfowitz put forth military arguments to justify a U.S. attack on Iraq rather than Afghanistan.” Why Iraq? Because, Wolfowitz argued in the War Cabinet, while “attacking Afghanistan would be uncertain … Iraq was a brittle oppressive regime that might break easily. It was doable."


On Sept. 20, forty neoconservatives sent an open letter to the White House instructing President Bush on how the war on terror must be conducted. Signed by Bennett, Podhoretz, Kirkpatrick, Perle, Kristol, and Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, the letter was an ultimatum. To retain the signers’ support, the president was told, he must target Hezbollah for destruction, retaliate against Syria and Iran if they refuse to sever ties to Hezbollah, and overthrow Saddam. Any failure to attack Iraq, the signers warned Bush, “will constitute an early and perhaps decisive surrender in the war on international terrorism.”


...President Bush had been warned. He was to exploit the attack of 9/11 to launch a series of wars on Arab regimes, none of which had attacked us...


Indeed, Sharon has been everywhere the echo of his acolytes in America. In February 2003, Sharon told a delegation of Congressmen that, after Saddam’s regime is destroyed, it is of “vital importance” that the United States disarm Iran, Syria, and Libya.

...
“Mubarak is no great shakes,” says Richard Perle of the President of Egypt. “Surely we can do better than Mubarak.” Asked about the possibility that a war on Iraq—which he predicted would be a “cakewalk”—might upend governments in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, former UN ambassador Ken Adelman told Joshua Micah Marshall of Washington Monthly, “All the better if you ask me.”...


As President Bush was warned on Sept. 20, 2001, that he will be indicted for “a decisive surrender” in the war on terror should he fail to attack Iraq, he is also on notice that pressure on Israel is forbidden. For as the neoconservatives have played the anti-Semitic card, they will not hesitate to play the Munich card as well


Just WOW
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post #69 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 06:56 PM
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Now read this and tell me if we don't have a full circle
Oh notice the date
Quote:
http://www.forward.com/articles/olme...ises-iraq-war/

Olmert Hugs Bush, Praises Iraq War

Nathan Guttman | Fri. Nov 17, 2006

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert raised eyebrows this week when he praised America’s war in Iraq as a “great operation” that brought stability to the Middle East.

Olmert made his remarks Monday during a White House press conference with President Bush, before heading to Los Angeles to speak at a major gathering of thousands of Jewish communal activists.

“We are very much impressed and encouraged by the stability which the great operation of America in Iraq brought to the Middle East,” Olmert said as he sat next to Bush in the Oval Office.....
you can read the rest and enjoy the show
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post #70 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 07:06 PM
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Her is an interesting one from
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/ar...rchiveId=22519

in the article this was quoted: "I personally met the former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins, before the war, and asked him why the war? He told me because [Ariel] Sharon and the pro-Israel neocons wanted it," he said.

I think this answers my question why we went to war, don't you think?
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