Colin Powell claims he was given fabricated information by Bush cabal - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 02:34 PM
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RE: Colin Powell claims he was given fabricated information by Bush cabal

Quote:
Alfa - 8/19/2005 4:29 PM

Would you point out to me were there is any quotes from Powell
I see a lot of quotes from an aid but it’s irrelevant for him to
speak for some one else.
Yeah, I read the thing and all I found was that Powell's aid said they got intel that was wrong. I can't find the accusation of fabrication until we get to---Kirk Vining's analysis. Hey Kirk, can you point that out for us? We're kind of lost.

B
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post #12 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 02:36 PM
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RE: Colin Powell claims he was given fabricated information by Bush cabal

Quote:
Alfa - 8/19/2005 3:29 PM
Would you point out to me were there is any quotes from Powell
I see a lot of quotes from an aid but it’s irrelevant for him to
speak for some one else.
'bout time someone used critical reasoning and show this piece of disinformation for what it is. A vile destabilization attempt against the democratically elected executive of this country, based on propaganda of the worse sort. The People are intelligent enough to see through these packs of lies. These so called individuals in the know discredit no one but themselves. Alfa, you da dog!

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post #13 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 02:39 PM
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RE: Colin Powell claims he was given fabricated information by Bush cabal

Quote:
tcp_ML500 - 8/19/2005 4:36 PM

Quote:
Alfa - 8/19/2005 3:29 PM
Would you point out to me were there is any quotes from Powell
I see a lot of quotes from an aid but it’s irrelevant for him to
speak for some one else.
'bout time someone used critical reasoning and show this piece of disinformation for what it is. A vile destabilization attempt against the democratically elected executive of this country, based on propaganda of the worse sort. The People are intelligent enough to see through these packs of lies. These so called individuals in the know discredit no one but themselves. Alfa, you da dog!
Go back home and git yer Ritalin, you're getting shakey.
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post #14 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 02:41 PM
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RE: Colin Powell claims he was given fabricated information by Bush cabal

Quote:
Botnst - 8/19/2005 3:39 PM

Quote:
tcp_ML500 - 8/19/2005 4:36 PM

Quote:
Alfa - 8/19/2005 3:29 PM
Would you point out to me were there is any quotes from Powell
I see a lot of quotes from an aid but it’s irrelevant for him to
speak for some one else.
'bout time someone used critical reasoning and show this piece of disinformation for what it is. A vile destabilization attempt against the democratically elected executive of this country, based on propaganda of the worse sort. The People are intelligent enough to see through these packs of lies. These so called individuals in the know discredit no one but themselves. Alfa, you da dog!
Go back home and git yer Ritalin, you're getting shakey.
I'll keep your advice under consideration.

Pleased to make your acquaintance Mr. Botnst, you are Alfa's Romeo I presume?

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post #15 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-19-2006, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Yeah, I read the thing and all I found was that Powell's aid said they got intel that was wrong. I can't find the accusation of fabrication until we get to---Kirk Vining's analysis. Hey Kirk, can you point that out for us? We're kind of lost.

B
It's been a year. Are you found yet? Will this help?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/po...erland&emc=rss

"Asked by Ms. Walters how painful this was for him, Mr. Powell replied: "It was painful. It's painful now." Asked further how he felt upon learning that he had been misled about the accuracy of intelligence on which he relied, Mr. Powell said, "Terrible." He added that it was "devastating" to learn later that some intelligence agents knew the information he had was unreliable but did not speak up."

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-19-2006, 11:30 PM
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Think

Prior to giving the speech, didn't Powell claim that he spent 3 days going-over all of the evidence? With the CIA analysts, not some political hack. Powell was an intelligence expert while in the army and served in the Whitehouse. He was thus intimately familiar with the political and intel tension of the Whitehouse and of CIA. Powell is an expert and I doubt some analyst is going to persuade or deceive a former 4-star general who is spending 3 days doing the background research.

So, either Powell lied about having gone over the intel with the analysts OR somehow the CIA analysts were intentionally corrupt OR they were intentionally corrupted OR they simply misinterpreted the data.

Or this: Some people feel bad about being wrong and cannot take responsibility for the resultant actions and so, seek to place the blame on others. Human nature.

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post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-19-2006, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
It's been a year. Are you found yet? Will this help?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/po...erland&emc=rss

"Asked by Ms. Walters how painful this was for him, Mr. Powell replied: "It was painful. It's painful now." Asked further how he felt upon learning that he had been misled about the accuracy of intelligence on which he relied, Mr. Powell said, "Terrible." He added that it was "devastating" to learn later that some intelligence agents knew the information he had was unreliable but did not speak up."
Don't forget the final paragraph from the link you provided,

"No, George Tenet did not sit there for five days with me, misleading me," he said, referring to the week he spent at the Central Intelligence Agency reviewing the evidence on Iraq before making his presentation to the United Nations. "There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at that time that some of these sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up. That devastated me."

On this point Powell & Tenet disagree to this day. Tenet says that the analysts did what they are supposed to do: give their best guesses as to how to interpret ambiguous data. It is up to the policy maker, not the analyst, to decide how to use the data. Should Powell have pushed the analysts? That's getting into dangerous territory, too. Some hindsight experts will accuse pushy policy makers of trying to cook the intelto conform with the policy maker's expectations.

How does the policy maker verify the legitimacy of an analyst without overly-influencing the analyst? I'll bet there's not a simple answer, except when the policy is proven to be right. Then everybody's a hero and nobody does a postmortem.

B
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post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 01:34 AM
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Bush needed a big response reaction to 9/11 - a chest puffing, missile launching, live on CNN, nobody fucks with the USA, 'spectacular' response.
Most of you guys rode that patriotic wave, and none of us will forget Bush's 'job done' speech from one of your peacekeeper flatdecks.
Shame that he apparently forgot about the natives - at both ends of the bullets in the heat of the camera moment.
Shame also that most of the rest of the world (especially that starry eyed Blair) wasn't more strident about saying WTF!.
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post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Don't forget the final paragraph from the link you provided,

"No, George Tenet did not sit there for five days with me, misleading me," he said, referring to the week he spent at the Central Intelligence Agency reviewing the evidence on Iraq before making his presentation to the United Nations. "There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at that time that some of these sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up. That devastated me."

On this point Powell & Tenet disagree to this day. Tenet says that the analysts did what they are supposed to do: give their best guesses as to how to interpret ambiguous data. It is up to the policy maker, not the analyst, to decide how to use the data. Should Powell have pushed the analysts? That's getting into dangerous territory, too. Some hindsight experts will accuse pushy policy makers of trying to cook the intelto conform with the policy maker's expectations.

How does the policy maker verify the legitimacy of an analyst without overly-influencing the analyst? I'll bet there's not a simple answer, except when the policy is proven to be right. Then everybody's a hero and nobody does a postmortem.

B
It will soon come out that the "aluminum tubes" stuff was essentially fabricated, the press already knows it was. In addition, to this day no one knows who forged the documents that Cheney took as genuine in the "yellowcake" case, and most people in the know think Cheney himself was responsible for forging them. Powell was defrauded. In the aluminum tube case, he was not told that a lone dick suck analyst had produced a preposterous theory that they were for nuclear weapons, while scores of other experts correctly deduced they were for artillery rockets. BushCo gave Powell the position of the one sorry bastard's criminally manipulated evidence. Next, Powell was never told that the person that much of the information on the preposterous "mobile weapons lab" scam was coming from, an insane person known as "Curveball" was considered unreliable by the CIA and the German intelligence services. The entire thing was a cocked hat scam, fucking "mobile weapons labs" - even some smuck like me knew it was all horseshit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062401081.html

Powell was set up. He was as much the victim of fraud as is anyone who is paid with a hot check. The road to impeachment lies through him. I think a nice little subpeona is in his future.

http://www.motherjones.com/mb/mt-sea...ball&blog_id=2

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 12-20-2006 at 06:04 AM.
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post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimpton
Bush needed a big response reaction to 9/11 - a chest puffing, missile launching, live on CNN, nobody fucks with the USA, 'spectacular' response.
Most of you guys rode that patriotic wave, and none of us will forget Bush's 'job done' speech from one of your peacekeeper flatdecks.
Shame that he apparently forgot about the natives - at both ends of the bullets in the heat of the camera moment.
Shame also that most of the rest of the world (especially that starry eyed Blair) wasn't more strident about saying WTF!.
Well done. Sock it to them!

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