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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Who wins in Iraq? Osama Bin Laden. Some 'democracy':

Draft Iraqi constitution elevates role of Islam
Proposal may erode women's rights in marriage, divorce, inheritance


Updated: 7:18 p.m. ET July 26, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A part of Iraq’s draft constitution obtained by The Associated Press gives Islam a major role in Iraqi civil law, raising concerns that women could lose rights in marriage, divorce and inheritance.

The proposal also appears to rule out non-governmental militias, an area addressed Monday by U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad. Urging Iraqis to build national institutions, he said there is no place for factional forces that “build the infrastructure for a future civil war.�

The civil law section, one of six to make up Iraq's new charter, covers the rights and duties of citizens and public and private freedoms. The language is not final, but members of the drafting committee said there was agreement on most of its wording.

Committee members have been rushing to complete the constitution so the Iraqi National Assembly can set the final wording by Aug. 15. Parliament's version would be put to a public vote by mid-October, and if approved, elections would follow by year's end.

Sunnis end boycott
The drafting panel’s efforts got a boost Monday when its 12 Sunni Arab members ended a boycott, easing fears the document might be rejected by the ethnic community at the heart of the insurgency.

Sunni Arab support is crucial because the charter can be scuttled if voters in three of Iraq’s 18 provinces reject it by a two-thirds majority — and Sunni Arabs are a majority in four provinces. Sunni Arabs make up about 20 percent of Iraq’s 27 million people but dominate areas where the insurgency is raging.

A Sunni member of the constitutional commission, Saleh al-Mutlaq, told AP he and his 11 colleagues agreed to resume work after receiving government assurances that their grievances would be addressed.

Those concerns included better security after last week’s assassination of two colleagues, which triggered the boycott, and for an expanded role for the Sunni Arab minority in the constitutional deliberations.

Terrorist group issues warning
On Tuesday, Iraq’s most feared terrorist group warned Sunni Arabs against taking part in the October referendum on the constitution, saying their participation would make them infidels — and therefore subject to the same treatment as occupation forces.

In a statement posted on the Internet, al-Qaida in Iraq slammed recent calls by some Sunni leaders encouraging the religious minority, which forms the core of the insurgency, to get involved in the political process.

Rollback for women's rights?
Most worrying for women's groups has been the section on civil rights, which some believe would significantly roll back women's rights under a 1959 civil law enacted by a secular regime.

In the copy obtained by the AP on Monday, Article 19 of the second chapter says "the followers of any religion or sect are free to choose their civil status according to their religious or sectarian beliefs."

Shiite Muslim leaders have pushed for a stronger role for Islam in civil law but women's groups argue that could base legal interpretations on stricter religious lines that are less favorable to women.

Committee members said they had taken account of women's concerns but were not planning to make changes, since the National Assembly will have final say on the wording.

Committee member Khudayer al-Khuzai said Muslims would be free to choose which Islamic sect they want to be judged by under the proposed civil law.

“We will not force anyone to adopt any sect at all. People are free to choose the sect they see as better or more legitimate. This is implemented in marriage, inheritance and all civil rights,� he said.

Not all Shiite laws are disadvantageous for women. Many Sunni Muslims who have only daughters prefer to follow Shiite religious law when it comes to inheritance, since daughters inherit everything their parents leave. Under Sunni rules, daughters have to share their inheritance with uncles, aunts and grandparents.

‘No place for militias’
While not specifically addressing militias, the draft chapter would permit Iraqis to form only political parties and would ban individuals from possessing weapons.

“There is no place for militias,� said al-Khuzai, a Shiite. “We have even made it clear for non-governmental organizations that they should not have any secret or military activities.�

Earlier Monday, Khalilzad spoke against militias — a clear signal to groups in Iraq's dominant Shiite Arab and Kurdish communities that have maintained armed groups.

“Regarding the militias, of course, our position is clear,� he said. “We don't want to do anything that creates longer term problems for Iraq in terms of the problem of warlordism or the problem of building an infrastructure for a future civil war.�

In other areas, the chapter obtained by AP would make the judiciary independent, require public trials, ban torture and require a judicial order to detain anyone. Child labor, which flourished in the 1990s after the United Nations imposed sanctions on Iraq, would be banned.

Al-Qaida's attacks on those and other diplomats appear aimed at isolating Iraq's government from its neighbors as the leadership tries to make progress in political efforts and reach a consensus on the constitution.

© 2005 The Associated Press


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 04:02 PM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Way to go! now we have new religious state in the Middle East thanks to the religious right in the US. Are Ousama Ben Laden and Pat Robinson in collusion? I bet ya the Ayatollah is smiling in his grave as the US has achieved what he could not and no other religious zealot could
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 05:15 PM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Here is more: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050730/ap_on_re_mi_ea/islam_and_constitution
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 05:28 PM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Here is another one: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/3288883
Damit, if I am going to land in Baghdad for business I want to go to the nearest bar at the airport drink up before I take a drive through the highway of death between the airport and the city. This is f*&ed up. How about on the way back? Hell, I would want even more after making it back. Hey at least if an American patrol shoots me “by mistake� while speeding for my life on that road I won’t feel the 50mm as they blow my head off.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 07:22 PM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

I don't think that's a constitution this country (USA) would write, do you?

We do want them to chart their own destiny, don't we? Not made over in our image, etc? haven't I heard little peeps of that sort here and there?

Wouldn't want to be guilty of cultural imperialism, now would we?

Thoughts? Anybody?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 10:03 PM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Quote:
Botnst - 7/31/2005 8:22 PM

I don't think that's a constitution this country (USA) would write, do you?

We do want them to chart their own destiny, don't we? Not made over in our image, etc? haven't I heard little peeps of that sort here and there?

Wouldn't want to be guilty of cultural imperialism, now would we?

Thoughts? Anybody?
Now your going to play by the rules? [xx(]
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 02:41 AM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

now we have one more replica of saudi arabia in middle east.. its called iraq!!

Fuel economy!! whats that??
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 09:06 AM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Quote:
Botnst - 7/31/2005 9:22 PM

I don't think that's a constitution this country (USA) would write, do you?

We do want them to chart their own destiny, don't we? Not made over in our image, etc? haven't I heard little peeps of that sort here and there?

Wouldn't want to be guilty of cultural imperialism, now would we?

Thoughts? Anybody?
Bot, go join your crowd your point is weak
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 10:13 AM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Quote:
Botnst - 7/31/2005 9:22 PM

I don't think that's a constitution this country (USA) would write, do you?

We do want them to chart their own destiny, don't we? Not made over in our image, etc? haven't I heard little peeps of that sort here and there?

Wouldn't want to be guilty of cultural imperialism, now would we?

Thoughts? Anybody?
Chart their own destiny? Do you mean Arabs? I thought that wasn't allowed. I thought the criteria on charting one's destiny was whether one sucked George Bush's cock or not. The current Baghdad "government" certainly meets that criteria. Those who don't want to suck dick seem to be shooting at them.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 10:21 AM
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RE: Iraq: The new Pan-Islamic state

Quote:
gnomo - 8/1/2005 12:13 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 7/31/2005 9:22 PM

I don't think that's a constitution this country (USA) would write, do you?

We do want them to chart their own destiny, don't we? Not made over in our image, etc? haven't I heard little peeps of that sort here and there?

Wouldn't want to be guilty of cultural imperialism, now would we?

Thoughts? Anybody?
Chart their own destiny? Do you mean Arabs? I thought that wasn't allowed. I thought the criteria on charting one's destiny was whether one sucked George Bush's cock or not. The current Baghdad "government" certainly meets that criteria. Those who don't want to suck dick seem to be shooting at them.
bulls eye
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