My my, what dirty little secrets you have, Bushilocks - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 06:55 PM
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RE: Bushilocks

Bot,
Look the state of this world is this way: Anyone who attempts at comparing atrocities committed by anyone as a Nazi action is quickly reprimanded and reminded that nothing, I mean nothing is at the level of how the Jews suffered. This is an established defacto cover that has been accepted by the media “makers� and all the goodie goodies.
Any comparisons is quickly attacked as an attempt at cheapening the experience the Jews went through. You said “Every Jew liberated from a death camp by Allied soldiers should visit you tonight in your dreams, safe in your bed.� This is the guilt that is perpetuating not just against the actual Nazi perpetuators but it used on anyone that thinks some suffering came even close to what actually happened in Auschwitz and many other places.
Bot, no one should deny the Holocaust but we must learn from it and stop using it as a cover to victimize more people. If someone uses Nazi tactics then that’s what they did, you don’t need to give them the friggin politically correct party line.
You just can’t admit that people are suffering in the hands of the so called liberators do you? Wake up from your white knights dream dude.
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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 07:08 PM
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RE: Bushilocks

Quote:
Shabah - 7/27/2005 8:55 PM

Bot,
Look the state of this world is this way: Anyone who attempts at comparing atrocities committed by anyone as a Nazi action is quickly reprimanded and reminded that nothing, I mean nothing is at the level of how the Jews suffered. This is an established defacto cover that has been accepted by the media “makers� and all the goodie goodies.
Any comparisons is quickly attacked as an attempt at cheapening the experience the Jews went through. You said “Every Jew liberated from a death camp by Allied soldiers should visit you tonight in your dreams, safe in your bed.� This is the guilt that is perpetuating not just against the actual Nazi perpetuators but it used on anyone that thinks some suffering came even close to what actually happened in Auschwitz and many other places.
Bot, no one should deny the Holocaust but we must learn from it and stop using it as a cover to victimize more people. If someone uses Nazi tactics then that’s what they did, you don’t need to give them the friggin politically correct party line.
You just can’t admit that people are suffering in the hands of the so called liberators do you? Wake up from your white knights dream dude.
I choose never awaken from that dream.

I agree that the 'don't criticize Israel or you're a Nazi' is tiresome. I think the whole usage of Nazism as a paradigm for injustice is tiresome.

Nazism fit in a time and place that is not representative of this time and place. The Jews (gypsies, homosexuals, conscientious objectors, antiwar seculars, antinazi intellectuals, communists, Poles, etc) of that era are not the Jews (gypsies, homosexuals, conscientious objectors, antiwar seculars, antinazi intellectuals, communists, Poles, etc) of today. The German people of today are not the Nazis of yesterday. It is time to bury the whole damned era. People misuse and abuse the era because it is so terrible an example of modern, secular rationalism run-amock.

In the same vein, I object strongly to comparison of American armed forces to that behavior. I also don't call Bin Laden's folks Nazis, though they do bad things and are being rude to lots of people who have done nothing to them. I don't call Hezbollah Nazis. I don't call Israelis Nazis. I don't call N Koreans Nazis.

I call Bin Laden an Islamic terrorist. I call Hezbollah a political movement with a terrorist component. I call the Israelis abusive and intransigent with a militaristic predeliction, And I call the freaks who abused prisoners at Abu Graib convicts.

Bot
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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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RE: My my, what dirty little secrets you have, Bushilocks

And in other news, "The War on Terrorism" has been renamed to "Mein Terrorism Kampf"
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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:02 PM
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RE: My my, what dirty little secrets you have, Bushilocks

Now normally I'd agree that we need to stop using something such as the Nazi's to portray suffering.

But you must be some kind of ASS to not see (or maybe you are blinded with ignorance?) that the degradation and suffering is similar to the level that the Jews suffered.

Compare some of the similarities:

Being kept NAKED
Forced sodomy
Jewish women were RAPED by Nazi soliders.

Or maybe you are like Barbara Bush who, when asked what she thinks of the injustices and crimes committed on other people in OUR name, replied, "I don't want to trouble my beautiful mind."

Sleep well because it's not YOUR family and it's NOT YOU who has injustice being inflicted upon.
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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:09 PM
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RE: My my, what dirty little secrets you have, Bushilocks

Quote:
BrentG500 - 7/27/2005 10:02 PM

Now normally I'd agree that we need to stop using something such as the Nazi's to portray suffering.

But you must be some kind of ASS to not see (or maybe you are blinded with ignorance?) that the degradation and suffering is similar to the level that the Jews suffered.

Compare some of the similarities:

Being kept NAKED
Forced sodomy
Jewish women were RAPED by Nazi soliders.

Or maybe you are like Barbara Bush who, when asked what she thinks of the injustices and crimes committed on other people in OUR name, replied, "I don't want to trouble my beautiful mind."

Sleep well because it's not YOUR family and it's NOT YOU who has injustice being inflicted upon.
Well, you're the kind of ASS that is blinded by weird politics, I guess.

The Nazi Party and all 'Good Germans' supported the mistreatment and extermination of defectives and Jews. Torture and murder of them and collaborators was a matter of policy.

In cotrast, you ASS, the soldiers at Abu Graib disobeyed direct and lawful orders to perpetrate this abuse. They were court martialed, convicted and are now imprisoned for tehir crimes.

How is that similar to Nazi policy, ASS?

Bot
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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:19 PM
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Bot

Quote:
Botnst - 7/27/2005 9:09 PM
Well, you're the kind of ASS that is blinded by weird politics, I guess.

The Nazi Party and all 'Good Germans' supported the mistreatment and extermination of defectives and Jews. Torture and murder of them and collaborators was a matter of policy.

In cotrast, you ASS, the soldiers at Abu Graib disobeyed direct and lawful orders to perpetrate this abuse. They were court martialed, convicted and are now imprisoned for tehir crimes.

How is that similar to Nazi policy, ASS?

Bot
Bot, sweetheart, is it itching your butt that someone called you an ASS? [:D]

Since you're the expert on Nazi's and their policy, why don't you tell me? I'm sure in your head you know more than what you write.

And those soliders were actually following orders. That was their argument, not mine. [:D]
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:26 PM
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RE: Bot

Quote:
BrentG500 - 7/27/2005 10:19 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 7/27/2005 9:09 PM
Well, you're the kind of ASS that is blinded by weird politics, I guess.

The Nazi Party and all 'Good Germans' supported the mistreatment and extermination of defectives and Jews. Torture and murder of them and collaborators was a matter of policy.

In cotrast, you ASS, the soldiers at Abu Graib disobeyed direct and lawful orders to perpetrate this abuse. They were court martialed, convicted and are now imprisoned for tehir crimes.

How is that similar to Nazi policy, ASS?

Bot
Bot, sweetheart, is it itching your butt that someone called you an ASS? [:D]

Since you're the expert on Nazi's and their policy, why don't you tell me? I'm sure in your head you know more than what you write.

And those soliders were actually following orders. That was their argument, not mine. [:D]
Yeah, it does bother me when I get insulted. I make no apology for it. You want to keep it up? Don't let your horse slow you down.

The soldiers were not following direct, lawful orders. That was demonstrated in open court. If you believe otherwise, then it is encumbant on you to prove it.

B
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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:30 PM
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RE: My my, what dirty little secrets you have, Bushilocks

Don't recall the Nazis court-martialing soldiers for this.

Bot

US troops on Iraq abuse charges

Eleven American soldiers serving in Iraq have been charged with mistreating detainees while on operations in the Baghdad area, the US military has said.

The military said the charges related to reports that the soldiers had assaulted a suspected insurgent.

The soldiers are from a National Guard unit, the 184th Infantry. These are part-time soldiers based in California and on their first deployment to Iraq.

Pre-trial proceedings were under way in Baghdad, a unit officer said.

He said the abuses were allegedly carried out while the soldiers were on an operation, not in a detention facility.

He could give no further details.

However, the Los Angeles Times newspaper has reported allegations that the troops used a stun gun to administer electric shocks to the suspected insurgent.

The paper also reported that members of the unit had been investigated for allegedly extorting money from Iraqi shopkeepers in return for protecting them from insurgents.

The officer said the proceedings under way in Baghdad - known as Article 32 hearings - would decide whether or not the soldiers should face courts martial.
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:37 PM
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Bushilocks

You know our country was founded on two principles: Justice and Freedom.

And there's a pretty good saying, "actions speak louder than words". It's true. I want to give you a hypothetical example. Let's say that a Nazi kidnaps a policeman and then subjects him to torture, humiliation and then ultimately kills him. Two days later, this Nazi person gets caught. Lets say that one person of every army does the same thing to another policeman in this country and they all get caught.

It doesn't matter how they choose to distinguish themselves from one another; their actions of torture, humiliation and then killing make the same in the eyes of law. And since they committed the same crime, they would each receive the same sentence.

Therefore, if a government imitates and repeats some of the same atrocious actions that a different government did, shouldn't they be held accountable?

The bottom line is that I don't care if you call yourself a Nazi, a terrorist, a Jihadist, a solider, a farmer, a President, a government, a whatever - if you commit the same crimes, you should be punished the same way.

You can try to divert the guilt and blame by saying "so and so did this" or "so and so didn't do this" but the fact of the matter is that the crime has been done and there are people responsible. Those in charge should find all those responsible and bring them to justice.

If you think I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 08:39 PM
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RE: My my, what dirty little secrets you have, Bushilocks

Quote:
Botnst - 7/27/2005 10:09 PM

Quote:
BrentG500 - 7/27/2005 10:02 PM

Now normally I'd agree that we need to stop using something such as the Nazi's to portray suffering.

But you must be some kind of ASS to not see (or maybe you are blinded with ignorance?) that the degradation and suffering is similar to the level that the Jews suffered.

Compare some of the similarities:

Being kept NAKED
Forced sodomy
Jewish women were RAPED by Nazi soliders.

Or maybe you are like Barbara Bush who, when asked what she thinks of the injustices and crimes committed on other people in OUR name, replied, "I don't want to trouble my beautiful mind."

Sleep well because it's not YOUR family and it's NOT YOU who has injustice being inflicted upon.
Well, you're the kind of ASS that is blinded by weird politics, I guess.

The Nazi Party and all 'Good Germans' supported the mistreatment and extermination of defectives and Jews. Torture and murder of them and collaborators was a matter of policy.

In cotrast, you ASS, the soldiers at Abu Graib disobeyed direct and lawful orders to perpetrate this abuse. They were court martialed, convicted and are now imprisoned for tehir crimes.

How is that similar to Nazi policy, ASS?

Bot
What makes you think that they disobeyed orders? Many of them are saying that these were orders from higher ups. Just today some light on the use of dogs is coming forth in the news. The dog handlers swear that the same tactics were done in Gitmo before Abu Graib it was just a replication of the methodology to get them people to talk or at least have some fun at their expenses and that of humanity.
Bot before you equivocally certify that somehow these events were just at the lower echelons of command and that the higher ups have clean hands and that the leaders have clear consciences you need to be a hundred percent sure of what you are saying and can back it up. But please don’t back it up by stating that Rummy said so, so it is!
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