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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 10:11 PM
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RE: London, Texas

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deathrattle - 7/23/2005 11:23 PM

Hey Heckflosse ^^^^

Bloody miserable northerners-stay up your own end of the country!!![:D][:D][:D][:D]
I daren't go too far north, my family's Scotish and some of them might remember me [:0]
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 06:31 AM
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RE: London, Texas

The Sunday Times - Britain



July 24, 2005

Shoot to kill error echoes Irish dirty war
When the stakes are high, police have no choice but to use controversial tactics, say Liam Clarke and Tony Geraghty



The five shots with which a policeman killed a terrorist suspect in London last week echoed round the world. From America to Australia and Asia, the killing made headlines and marked the crossing of a boundary.
Though the days when all British bobbies were thought to be unarmed have long passed, the clinical and close-quarter nature of the shooting was unprecedented in Britain. Police have previously shot men believed to be dangerous, but they have not stood over a prostrate figure and unloaded five rounds into him from point-blank range. To compound matters the police admitted yesterday he had nothing to do with the terror attacks.



However, London has never before faced suicide bombers. The stakes have become much higher, forcing new rules of engagement.

Friday’s killing was a direct result of aggressive new guidelines from Scotland Yard based on the experience of Israel and Sri Lanka in dealing with suicide bombers. British officers are now under instructions to shoot suspects in the head if they are believed to be suicide bombers posing an imminent danger.

A policy of “shoot-to-kill� echoes the darkest days of the Northern Irish troubles. And it raises worrying questions when applied in the much larger and more mixed communities of mainland Britain, and when the suspected terrorists are much more elusive and shadowy.

Today’s Muslim leaders, although supportive of law and order, are worried and demanding explanations. “There may well be reasons why the police felt it necessary to unload five shots into the man and shoot him dead, but they need to make those reasons clear,� said Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain.

Prophetically, a former senior Special Branch officer from Northern Ireland said: “I suspect that the authorities in England will make all the same mistakes as we did.�

Those errors include an operation in Gibraltar in 1988 when the SAS killed three IRA members in the belief that they were about to detonate a radio-controlled bomb. In reality the explosives were miles away and the three suspects were carrying no radio equipment.

Although the Gibraltar coroner’s court ruled that the killings had been lawful, the European Court of Human Rights later criticised the “lack of degree of caution in the use of firearms� by the SAS.

Specialist security forces, such as the recently formed Special Reconnaissance Regiment (SRR), which has been drafted in to combat the present terror threat, are generally protected by law if they shoot first and ask questions later, provided they believe the suspect was a threat to the lives of others.

This proved to be the case when Diarmuid O’Neill, an unarmed IRA man, was shot dead in his Hammersmith flat in 1996. The officer who pulled the trigger told a coroner’s court: “His body language was aggressive, he leaned towards me.� The jury returned a verdict of lawful killing.

But the new policy to cope with suicide attacks is a step further. With suicide bombers there is no question of trying to stop suspects by wounding them: only immediate execution will do.

The threat and risks run far wider than London. Specialist firearms officers are being deployed on secondment to MI5, which is opening eight offices in cities including Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Birmingham. The aim is to increase the surveillance of terrorist suspects and to penetrate radical networks with informants.

The highly secretive SRR draws on members of the 14th Intelligence Company, and the Force Research Unit (FRU), which handled all military intelligence informers in Northern Ireland.

If the pattern of Northern Ireland is repeated, Asian servicemen will be encouraged to volunteer for covert duties. Some may “resign� from the army to return to their communities as undercover agents.

The past two weeks have given Britons a test of what is potentially in store in the weeks, months, even years ahead. It is a dangerous balance for everyone.

“You can’t be afraid to act if life is at stake,� said a former Northern Ireland Special Branch officer. “But if you alienate people you can hand the terrorists a long-term support base from which to operate.�




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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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RE: London, Texas

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deathrattle - 7/23/2005 10:51 PM


I dont understand how you can claim to be an Anglophile yet consider us to be a nation of racists?

Again, I made it clear that I am not addressing the entire citizenry of British Isles as racists but there is a part of British Culture that is marred by ugly racism.

What's so insulting about being mistaken for a German? Isn't that an indication of the racism if not snobbery that I speak of? I know you meant it as a light-hearted humor and I won't jab at it, but humor me.

Your experience in India is probably analogous to what I went through as a young boy. Imagine how confusing that was for someone who was as good as a clean slate in terms of exposure to racism.

As for movies and anger, rest assured. I will not go burning Union Jack in front of the nearest British Foreign Office upon watching them. I am not that short-circuited - for example, I don't go searching for the buried money along the Interstate in North Dakota just because there was a scene depicting that in 'Fargo' which claimed to be a reenaction of a true story.




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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 07:05 AM
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RE: London, Texas

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deathrattle - 7/24/2005 1:31 PM

The Sunday Times - Britain



July 24, 2005

Shoot to kill error echoes Irish dirty war
When the stakes are high, police have no choice but to use controversial tactics, say Liam Clarke and Tony Geraghty



[snip]

“You can’t be afraid to act if life is at stake,� said a former Northern Ireland Special Branch officer. “But if you alienate people you can hand the terrorists a long-term support base from which to operate.�



Yes, the war in NI - just the tactics to adopt to win, no doubt about it, look at how successful it has been. State-sanctioned paramilitary executions in the name of pragmatism, et al., though I'd be inclined to argue that there is little parallel between security forces strategems in NI and the shooting of the Brazilian lad the other day - the latter look like more of a genuine mistake, albeit a culpable mistake.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 09:46 AM
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RE: London, Texas


naomilla-consider yourself humored!![:)]

BTW-where/when did you stay in the UK?



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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 11:58 AM
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RE: London, Texas

Quote:
ThrillKill - 7/23/2005 9:44 PM

Quote:
deathrattle - 7/23/2005 8:17 PM


And i can't say i find your ditty particularly cerebral buy surely that amount of daily whacking and diddling has got to be bad for your eyesight,nevermind your teeth.[:X]

I concur. It's amazing that we have time to build incendiary devices or fumble over our Rosaries.
Alas, I am a proud Yank,Whacker,Diddler etc.
I was sent kicking and screaming to the Green Fields as an unruly teen to teach me to control myself....I corrupted Westport and half of Co. Mayo in 3 years time. Kinda like the Bizzaro St. Patrick.
wasn't St Paddy English?
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 12:14 PM
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RE: London, Texas

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Botnst - 7/24/2005 12:58 PM

Quote:
ThrillKill - 7/23/2005 9:44 PM

Quote:
deathrattle - 7/23/2005 8:17 PM


And i can't say i find your ditty particularly cerebral buy surely that amount of daily whacking and diddling has got to be bad for your eyesight,nevermind your teeth.[:X]

I concur. It's amazing that we have time to build incendiary devices or fumble over our Rosaries.
Alas, I am a proud Yank,Whacker,Diddler etc.
I was sent kicking and screaming to the Green Fields as an unruly teen to teach me to control myself....I corrupted Westport and half of Co. Mayo in 3 years time. Kinda like the Bizzaro St. Patrick.
wasn't St Paddy English?
Born in Ireland and whisked away on a slave ship in his youth to England. He returned to bestow order and Christianity to the Celtic wild dogs. Once I drank a 1/2 pint of Jameson to his honor at the top of the Reeks (Crogh Padrick) after a days climb and was almost hurled over by some barefooted freinds of Jesus .

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 02:10 PM
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RE: London, Texas

hey, I've been there, man. Hurled all over my friends, I mean.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 02:19 PM
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2005, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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RE: London, Texas

1976-1980
West Wickham and Bromley.

The long, hot summer of '76 and ladybird infestation, Queen's Silver Jubilee, Labour defeated, Margaret Thatcher, Angela Rippon, Anna Ford, Louise Brown aka the Test Tube Baby, Rhodesia turns Zimbabwe, European Song Contest, Multi-Colored Swap Shop, ABBA, Blake's Seven, Jim'll Fix It, Multi-Colored Swap Shop, Nottingham Forest, Bjorn Borg, Sebastian Coe and Steve Ovett...

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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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